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The office has become a real hot potato. The crux of it is that demand is down and staying there, and cities, companies and individuals are all winners or loser

The office has become a real hot potato. The crux of it is that demand is down and staying there, and cities, companies and individuals are all winners or losers, but the losers can try to lose less by passing the cost on to someone else. And big tech has the cash to absorb the blow of forcing everyone back to the office, but it marks them permanently as a dinosaur firm, a place where there used to be A-rank people but they all left for somewhere more flexible. In the previous era it was hard to avoid pursuing a high capitalization play - either building or merging into a more consolidated firm - because the low interest rates meant that if you didn't do it, someone else would borrow up to do it and weaponize that against the little guys. And real estate was part of that, it was an added-value benefit to build out a bespoke campus with a huge parking lot and to bus in your employees. This is more of a "tide's going out, see who is swimming naked" environment where marginal cost structure dominates and you can opt to have only a small office in a downtown core and get the fire-sale prices and the benefits of public infrastructure, or just go all remote.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago
Facebook/Google had ALLEGEDLY good office space. For google I think it was just good food. Otherwise, let's look at the nitty gritty: OPEN FLOOR PLAN: absolutely sucks. It's amazing that people are nostalgic for cube farms over floor plans, cube farms were a massive downgrade from actual offices. Basically, take mass distraction from people around you coupled with a paranoia that you can't do anything non-work related (and remember, the vast amount of office jobs are busywork per recent HN stories) without fear of it being seen and judged. CATTLE-LIKE BATHROOMS: People never talk about this. You know what I REALLY like about WFH? Taking a shit on my own toilet. Taking a shit next to someone else sucks. If you are a remorseless public bathroom shitter, I take my hat off to you, but I think it sucks. I'll do it if I have to, but still. But I don't like cleaning up the toilet seat from some other asshole who left it in terrible shape, or figuring out if the neighboring shitter had curry for dinner last night. FOOD: The food you have at home will probably beat any Google food options practically speaking. Might not be good for the waistline. For your typical corporate cafeteria, I'll take my fridge. Oh yes, I have my own massive personal fridge at home. I mean, I have a fucking kitchen, with all the spices/cooking pans/etc. No one stealing your food and all that sociopathy. Ok, maybe Google has a leg up on this, or at least they did at one point. PARKING: The commute thing is obvious. But if you live in a northern climate with a serious winter, parking is the worst part of going to the office. These companies make GIGANTIC office buildings, but don't build underground or heated parking. Instead, concrete slabs and have people trudge through zero degree weather, and get in their cars both ways. It makes commuting 3x worse. If I WFH, guess what? Don't even deal with that. I have a garage. I mean, an office isn't torture, obviously. But if businesses can't figure out how to at least make them a bit more appealing after what amounts to decades of steady degradation in the experience (I watched my mom at Bell Labs go from her own office, to an office with several people, to a cube farm, and I went from various flavors of cube farm (your own cube with high walls to cube shared with 2-4 people with high walls, to the low wall cube, to "open floor plan") then those investments will turn into writeoffs. And of course other things died along the way: corporate fitness centers, lockers, office supplies, ability to print, etc.
- smarmgoblin 3y ago
  Honestly the commute trumps all of this for me. Sure open office is a pain but whatever I’ll make it work. Can pack a lunch if necessary, and shit at home. Two hours one way? I’m not sure I can do it. Could I at least be located in the office closest to my house? No, that won’t be possible, how could you possibly communicate with your team. Just a giant middle finger.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago

Facebook/Google had ALLEGEDLY good office space. For google I think it was just good food. Otherwise, let's look at the nitty gritty: OPEN FLOOR PLAN: absolutely sucks. It's amazing that people are nostalgic for cube farms over floor plans, cube farms were a massive downgrade from actual offices. Basically, take mass distraction from people around you coupled with a paranoia that you can't do anything non-work related (and remember, the vast amount of office jobs are busywork per recent HN stories) without fear of it being seen and judged. CATTLE-LIKE BATHROOMS: People never talk about this. You know what I REALLY like about WFH? Taking a shit on my own toilet. Taking a shit next to someone else sucks. If you are a remorseless public bathroom shitter, I take my hat off to you, but I think it sucks. I'll do it if I have to, but still. But I don't like cleaning up the toilet seat from some other asshole who left it in terrible shape, or figuring out if the neighboring shitter had curry for dinner last night. FOOD: The food you have at home will probably beat any Google food options practically speaking. Might not be good for the waistline. For your typical corporate cafeteria, I'll take my fridge. Oh yes, I have my own massive personal fridge at home. I mean, I have a fucking kitchen, with all the spices/cooking pans/etc. No one stealing your food and all that sociopathy. Ok, maybe Google has a leg up on this, or at least they did at one point. PARKING: The commute thing is obvious. But if you live in a northern climate with a serious winter, parking is the worst part of going to the office. These companies make GIGANTIC office buildings, but don't build underground or heated parking. Instead, concrete slabs and have people trudge through zero degree weather, and get in their cars both ways. It makes commuting 3x worse. If I WFH, guess what? Don't even deal with that. I have a garage. I mean, an office isn't torture, obviously. But if businesses can't figure out how to at least make them a bit more appealing after what amounts to decades of steady degradation in the experience (I watched my mom at Bell Labs go from her own office, to an office with several people, to a cube farm, and I went from various flavors of cube farm (your own cube with high walls to cube shared with 2-4 people with high walls, to the low wall cube, to "open floor plan") then those investments will turn into writeoffs. And of course other things died along the way: corporate fitness centers, lockers, office supplies, ability to print, etc.

smarmgoblin 3y ago
Honestly the commute trumps all of this for me. Sure open office is a pain but whatever I’ll make it work. Can pack a lunch if necessary, and shit at home. Two hours one way? I’m not sure I can do it. Could I at least be located in the office closest to my house? No, that won’t be possible, how could you possibly communicate with your team. Just a giant middle finger.