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I absolutely hate when an articles starts out with: > IN A STARTUP, YOU SHOULD BE USING THE MOST POWERFUL LANGUAGE YOU CAN, AND THAT IS CLOJURE. says you. one

I absolutely hate when an articles starts out with: > IN A STARTUP, YOU SHOULD BE USING THE MOST POWERFUL LANGUAGE YOU CAN, AND THAT IS CLOJURE. says you. one opinion. in a startup you should use the language that your team can build and launch your MVP the fastest so you can get your first customers or funding. Hell, this could be a low code or no-code platform(probably not in fintech, just saying with startups in general). I mean, I'd say Python is the most powerful language because of LLMs and machine learning and generally I'm a PHP dev. Python also is about to get a ton more powerful with mojo which supposedly makes Python 36000x more performant. However, I would never tell someone x is the most powerful language and only one to use for a startup because that's a total lie and opinion.

seabass-labrax 3y ago
That catchline makes a lot more sense when you consider that JUXT is the most prominent company specialising in Clojure aside from Nubank itself, and have their logo at the foot of pretty much any conference remotely touching on Clojure topics. Clojure has a fairly insular community that overlaps with other lisps more than it does something more popular such as Python or PHP, so the cliché (admittedly, one with some truth in it) that Clojure is the most powerful language might be surprising to someone who doesn't use it. We Clojure developers are used to it though, and stating our presumed superiority is almost a greeting at this stage!
- tacker2000 3y ago
  yawn I’ve seen a few other projects around here that boasted about using clojure because “we are the smartest and clojure is best and everything else is dogshit” Doesnt make your insular group look inviting or synpathetic at all to be honest…
  - waffletower 3y ago
    I get it. I am a Clojurist that works for a fairly sizable company where Clojure is dominant (there actually are many, not just JUXT, you could also name Walmart). But I get annoyed when people substitute "we are the smartest and Rust is best and everything else is excrement" or especially "Typescript is best..." rofl
- KingMob 3y ago
  > stating our presumed superiority is almost a greeting at this stage! I think you're joking, but as another person in the Clojure community, please don't do this for real. The community already has issues with feeling "elite".
  - seabass-labrax 3y ago
    Rest assured, I don't lord it over others :) Plenty do though, and those are who I was poking fun at: those who ritually exchange platitudes extolling the virtues of Clojure, Datomic or even Rick Hickey before the start of every discussion.
    - KingMob 3y ago
      Two years at Cognitect put an end to that for me. Never meet your heroes.
jwr 3y ago
Of course it's an opinion. Anytime somebody says something, it's his/her opinion. My opinion, for example, is that I agree with his opinion :-) My solo-founder business would not have been possible without Clojure and ClojureScript, which is a testament to the "power" of this language. I consider it "powerful", because it lets a single developer write and maintain a complex app over the years. It gives me power.
- yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
  > My solo-founder business would not have been possible without Clojure and ClojureScript …Really? Why?
  - jwr 3y ago
    Because I would have to write much more code, and likely not in a single language. More code = more bugs and more maintenance overhead. Larger companies can afford this, in exchange for "average programmer accessibility". I can't.
waffletower 3y ago
Python is very powerful indeed, especially in 2023. But for some reason I orchestrate my LLMs and diffusion models using Clojure. I also prefer to tame LLM output using Clojure. I still definitely write Python where it makes perfect sense.

seabass-labrax 3y ago

That catchline makes a lot more sense when you consider that JUXT is the most prominent company specialising in Clojure aside from Nubank itself, and have their logo at the foot of pretty much any conference remotely touching on Clojure topics. Clojure has a fairly insular community that overlaps with other lisps more than it does something more popular such as Python or PHP, so the cliché (admittedly, one with some truth in it) that Clojure is the most powerful language might be surprising to someone who doesn't use it. We Clojure developers are used to it though, and stating our presumed superiority is almost a greeting at this stage!

tacker2000 3y ago
yawn I’ve seen a few other projects around here that boasted about using clojure because “we are the smartest and clojure is best and everything else is dogshit” Doesnt make your insular group look inviting or synpathetic at all to be honest…
- waffletower 3y ago
  I get it. I am a Clojurist that works for a fairly sizable company where Clojure is dominant (there actually are many, not just JUXT, you could also name Walmart). But I get annoyed when people substitute "we are the smartest and Rust is best and everything else is excrement" or especially "Typescript is best..." rofl
KingMob 3y ago
> stating our presumed superiority is almost a greeting at this stage! I think you're joking, but as another person in the Clojure community, please don't do this for real. The community already has issues with feeling "elite".
- seabass-labrax 3y ago
  Rest assured, I don't lord it over others :) Plenty do though, and those are who I was poking fun at: those who ritually exchange platitudes extolling the virtues of Clojure, Datomic or even Rick Hickey before the start of every discussion.
  - KingMob 3y ago
    Two years at Cognitect put an end to that for me. Never meet your heroes.

jwr 3y ago

Of course it's an opinion. Anytime somebody says something, it's his/her opinion. My opinion, for example, is that I agree with his opinion :-) My solo-founder business would not have been possible without Clojure and ClojureScript, which is a testament to the "power" of this language. I consider it "powerful", because it lets a single developer write and maintain a complex app over the years. It gives me power.

yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
> My solo-founder business would not have been possible without Clojure and ClojureScript …Really? Why?
- jwr 3y ago
  Because I would have to write much more code, and likely not in a single language. More code = more bugs and more maintenance overhead. Larger companies can afford this, in exchange for "average programmer accessibility". I can't.

waffletower 3y ago

Python is very powerful indeed, especially in 2023. But for some reason I orchestrate my LLMs and diffusion models using Clojure. I also prefer to tame LLM output using Clojure. I still definitely write Python where it makes perfect sense.