3 ms·

Well, here in UK nearly all residential properties have only a single phase supply - it can actually be really limiting nowadays. Some older properties are only

Well, here in UK nearly all residential properties have only a single phase supply - it can actually be really limiting nowadays. Some older properties are only wired for 60amp draw at 220V, meaning you can really only have an electric shower and an oven on at the same time and that's it, you've gone over the limit. People are finding it more and more as electric cars are getting popular and turns out fitting a 32amp(7.2kW) charger on a single phase 60 or even 80amp supply is sometimes not feasible depending on what else you have in your house already. Continental setup is far superior to what we have here for this reason.

muxator 3y ago
> 60amp draw at 220V You are very luky! The standard installed power for residential use in Italy is 220 V, 3.3 kW.
- rekoil 3y ago
  Single-phase 16A? That's the standard? My tiny apartment homelab probably uses at least a third of that (I should measure its consumption actually...). Said 50m² apartment has 16A triple-phase installed, but the breaker box is wired to be capable of safely drawing up to 63A triple-phase from the grid if I needed it.
  - muxator 3y ago
    Yep. You can obviously upgrade to 4.5 and 6 kW (still single phase, I think), or go three phase. Single house probably do that. But I'd be surprised if the apartments had more than 3 kW installed. This results in a big payoff for efficiency, however: high efficiency AC and heat pumps for water go a long way in increasing how much you can do on so much little power.
    - gambiting 3y ago
      Do Italians not use electric kettles?
      - muxator 3y ago
        Only those that consume 3 kW max :) Jokes aside, I think that this ends up incentivizing an efficient use of energy. That's not so bad after all.
        gambiting 3y ago
        I mean sure, but there are certain appliances(like kettles) which really can't get any more efficient, so if you want to boil some water......3kW overall limit for the entire apartment is seriously limiting. Like, if someone is boiling water and another person uses a hair dryer, it will blow fuses?
  - Ekaros 3y ago
    My place was renovated about decade ago and has 3x25A... And I don't have anything special like Sauna and circuits are pretty much original...
rekoil 3y ago
> meaning you can really only have an electric shower and an oven on at the same time and that's it, you've gone over the limit What's the deal with your electric showers anyway? Surely it's more efficient to heat in a central location and distribute both a cold and a hot water circuit through the building... Probably talking out of my ass, it's just so weird and I haven't seen it anywhere other than in the UK.
- Johnythree 3y ago
  Storage hot water is actually quite inefficient. On-demand heating has the advantage that there is no thermal loss due to keeping a large amount of water (plus piping) hot 24 hrs a day. Plus water is not wasted in waiting for hot water to arrive each time a tap is switched on. Back in the days of Coal-fired power stations, people were encouraged to use storage hot water systems which were automatically switched on at night, so the the power stations could continue running because of the large base-load power demand. However the modern Solar/wind generated power systems are the opposite, they much prefer loads which are only on during the daytime.
  - fomine3 3y ago
    Even with heat loss by tank, It's x2-x5 efficient if it uses hear pump water heater. Also storage system works great when solar generators are active.
    - Johnythree 3y ago
      On-demand HWS can use heat-pump technology if required. Even tiny refrigerators use a heat pump. If they aren't widely used, it's because the savings are too small to warrant it. Regarding solar HWS: The cost of heating panels, piping, and installation, has meant that they are fast disappearing from the market. It's better to add a few extra solar electric panels and use on-demand HWS, either with battery storage or via grid connect. I've just been down this route with a new solar electric plant. I had originally assumed that Solar HWS would be included, but after doing the calcs, have abandoned the solar heating panels and instead opted for a few more solar electric panels plus extra Lithium batteries. It means I have a lot more storage that can used for many different purposes.

muxator 3y ago

> 60amp draw at 220V You are very luky! The standard installed power for residential use in Italy is 220 V, 3.3 kW.

rekoil 3y ago
Single-phase 16A? That's the standard? My tiny apartment homelab probably uses at least a third of that (I should measure its consumption actually...). Said 50m² apartment has 16A triple-phase installed, but the breaker box is wired to be capable of safely drawing up to 63A triple-phase from the grid if I needed it.
- muxator 3y ago
  Yep. You can obviously upgrade to 4.5 and 6 kW (still single phase, I think), or go three phase. Single house probably do that. But I'd be surprised if the apartments had more than 3 kW installed. This results in a big payoff for efficiency, however: high efficiency AC and heat pumps for water go a long way in increasing how much you can do on so much little power.
  - gambiting 3y ago
    Do Italians not use electric kettles?
    - muxator 3y ago
      Only those that consume 3 kW max :) Jokes aside, I think that this ends up incentivizing an efficient use of energy. That's not so bad after all.
      - gambiting 3y ago
        I mean sure, but there are certain appliances(like kettles) which really can't get any more efficient, so if you want to boil some water......3kW overall limit for the entire apartment is seriously limiting. Like, if someone is boiling water and another person uses a hair dryer, it will blow fuses?
- Ekaros 3y ago
  My place was renovated about decade ago and has 3x25A... And I don't have anything special like Sauna and circuits are pretty much original...

rekoil 3y ago

> meaning you can really only have an electric shower and an oven on at the same time and that's it, you've gone over the limit What's the deal with your electric showers anyway? Surely it's more efficient to heat in a central location and distribute both a cold and a hot water circuit through the building... Probably talking out of my ass, it's just so weird and I haven't seen it anywhere other than in the UK.

Johnythree 3y ago
Storage hot water is actually quite inefficient. On-demand heating has the advantage that there is no thermal loss due to keeping a large amount of water (plus piping) hot 24 hrs a day. Plus water is not wasted in waiting for hot water to arrive each time a tap is switched on. Back in the days of Coal-fired power stations, people were encouraged to use storage hot water systems which were automatically switched on at night, so the the power stations could continue running because of the large base-load power demand. However the modern Solar/wind generated power systems are the opposite, they much prefer loads which are only on during the daytime.
- fomine3 3y ago
  Even with heat loss by tank, It's x2-x5 efficient if it uses hear pump water heater. Also storage system works great when solar generators are active.
  - Johnythree 3y ago
    On-demand HWS can use heat-pump technology if required. Even tiny refrigerators use a heat pump. If they aren't widely used, it's because the savings are too small to warrant it. Regarding solar HWS: The cost of heating panels, piping, and installation, has meant that they are fast disappearing from the market. It's better to add a few extra solar electric panels and use on-demand HWS, either with battery storage or via grid connect. I've just been down this route with a new solar electric plant. I had originally assumed that Solar HWS would be included, but after doing the calcs, have abandoned the solar heating panels and instead opted for a few more solar electric panels plus extra Lithium batteries. It means I have a lot more storage that can used for many different purposes.