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> Using malware to combat malware. Though it’s only legal when they do it. Pretty sure it’d still be a crime if a good Samaritan tried it out.

by koolba 3y ago

paxys 3y ago
Why are you making it sound like that's some profound revelation? Law enforcement is allowed to run stings, serve warrants and make arrests, you aren't. The military is allowed to invade countries and drop nukes, you aren't. Yes it is legal when they do it and not some average Joe who wants to play hero. That's how the world works, and it is a good thing.
- KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
  [flagged]
- fluoridation 3y ago
  I don't believe there's any laws that forbid individuals from invading countries and using nuclear weapons.
  - glasshug 3y ago
    18 U.S.C. 960 > Whoever, within the United States, knowingly begins or sets on foot or provides or prepares a means for or furnishes the money for, or takes part in, any military or naval expedition or enterprise to be carried on from thence against the territory or dominion of any foreign prince or state, or of any colony, district, or people with whom the United States is at peace, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
    - 9991 3y ago
      The U.S. hasn't declared war since WWII, so it looks like the entirety of the U.S. military is in violation of this. It's looking more and more like what actually gets prosecuted is a political decision.
      - afthonos 3y ago
        Yes, this is true, but in a far more boring way than you imagine. Prosecutors have huge latitude on what to prosecute, and the police on what to direct investigatory resources to. At every point, the unconscious and sometimes conscious politics of the people making those decisions are in play. That’s what makes reforming the system so hard.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - fluoridation 3y ago
      So what you're saying is that it's legal for an American to nuke a country as long as the US is already at war with that country.
      - glasshug 3y ago
        Ha! No, 42 U.S.C. 2122.
        fluoridation 3y ago
        Nanny state.
        civilitty 3y ago
        Thanks for ruining my weekend plans!
        thghtihadanacct 3y ago
        The crazy part is how old those codes are. Someone saw shenanigans from a long time off.
        throwaway58480 3y ago
        Am I reading this wrong or are foreign heads of state that produce nuclear weapons technically committing a crime which the US considers itself to have jurisdiction over? If so why aren't they arrested when they travel to the US?
    - Obscurity4340 3y ago
      Where would this leave Elon Musk and his possible servicing of Putin? He'a got money so I know he'll be fine but still kind of shocked such a high-profile government contractor can get away with this kind of thing with no collateral damage to their business or personal effects
- koolba 3y ago
  > Why are you making it sound like that's some profound revelation? I've never claimed any of my musings are profound revelations. That's an exercise left to the reader. > Law enforcement is allowed to run stings, serve warrants and make arrests, you aren't. Specifics matter. "The Government" is not some monolithic entity. Even "law enforcement" could be local, State level, FBI, CIA, or some other part of the executive branch. Each has its own restrictions on when and how it can operate. > The military is allowed to invade countries and drop nukes, you aren't. The military is expressly disallowed from interfering in civilian affairs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act > Yes it is legal when they do it and not some average Joe who wants to play hero. It's an untested open question whether it's legal for them to do it to US civilians or infrastructure that they know is owned by US civilians. It might be the right thing to do. The world might be better for it. It might even be decided one day that they do in fact have that power (there's a pretty clear argument that stopping a botnet qualifies as "Hot pursuit": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_pursuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_pursuit). > That's how the world works, and it is a good thing. There's plenty of "ends justify the means" situations involving the government that are not good things applied more generally. Hence, specifics matter.
  - thghtihadanacct 3y ago
    I appreciate the point by point break down but > The military is allowed to invade countries and drop nukes, you aren't. The military is expressly disallowed from interfering in civilian affairs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act Is vice versa.
voz_ 3y ago
Yeah, it's part of the social contract? This is a good thing. It's the same reason I cant just grab a gun and start arresting people as a "good Samaritan".
- flutas 3y ago
  I mean, citizens arrest is a thing in many countries.[0] Immunity varies, laws vary, but it's definitely a thing... [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest

> Using malware to combat malware. Though it’s only legal when they do it. Pretty sure it’d still be a crime if a good Samaritan tried it out.

by koolba 3y ago

> Using malware to combat malware. Though it’s only legal when they do it. Pretty sure it’d still be a crime if a good Samaritan tried it out.

paxys 3y ago

Why are you making it sound like that's some profound revelation? Law enforcement is allowed to run stings, serve warrants and make arrests, you aren't. The military is allowed to invade countries and drop nukes, you aren't. Yes it is legal when they do it and not some average Joe who wants to play hero. That's how the world works, and it is a good thing.

KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
[flagged]
fluoridation 3y ago
I don't believe there's any laws that forbid individuals from invading countries and using nuclear weapons.
- glasshug 3y ago
  18 U.S.C. 960 > Whoever, within the United States, knowingly begins or sets on foot or provides or prepares a means for or furnishes the money for, or takes part in, any military or naval expedition or enterprise to be carried on from thence against the territory or dominion of any foreign prince or state, or of any colony, district, or people with whom the United States is at peace, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
  - 9991 3y ago
    The U.S. hasn't declared war since WWII, so it looks like the entirety of the U.S. military is in violation of this. It's looking more and more like what actually gets prosecuted is a political decision.
    - afthonos 3y ago
      Yes, this is true, but in a far more boring way than you imagine. Prosecutors have huge latitude on what to prosecute, and the police on what to direct investigatory resources to. At every point, the unconscious and sometimes conscious politics of the people making those decisions are in play. That’s what makes reforming the system so hard.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - fluoridation 3y ago
    So what you're saying is that it's legal for an American to nuke a country as long as the US is already at war with that country.
    - glasshug 3y ago
      Ha! No, 42 U.S.C. 2122.
      - fluoridation 3y ago
        Nanny state.
      - civilitty 3y ago
        Thanks for ruining my weekend plans!
      - thghtihadanacct 3y ago
        The crazy part is how old those codes are. Someone saw shenanigans from a long time off.
      - throwaway58480 3y ago
        Am I reading this wrong or are foreign heads of state that produce nuclear weapons technically committing a crime which the US considers itself to have jurisdiction over? If so why aren't they arrested when they travel to the US?
  - Obscurity4340 3y ago
    Where would this leave Elon Musk and his possible servicing of Putin? He'a got money so I know he'll be fine but still kind of shocked such a high-profile government contractor can get away with this kind of thing with no collateral damage to their business or personal effects
koolba 3y ago
> Why are you making it sound like that's some profound revelation? I've never claimed any of my musings are profound revelations. That's an exercise left to the reader. > Law enforcement is allowed to run stings, serve warrants and make arrests, you aren't. Specifics matter. "The Government" is not some monolithic entity. Even "law enforcement" could be local, State level, FBI, CIA, or some other part of the executive branch. Each has its own restrictions on when and how it can operate. > The military is allowed to invade countries and drop nukes, you aren't. The military is expressly disallowed from interfering in civilian affairs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act > Yes it is legal when they do it and not some average Joe who wants to play hero. It's an untested open question whether it's legal for them to do it to US civilians or infrastructure that they know is owned by US civilians. It might be the right thing to do. The world might be better for it. It might even be decided one day that they do in fact have that power (there's a pretty clear argument that stopping a botnet qualifies as "Hot pursuit": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_pursuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_pursuit). > That's how the world works, and it is a good thing. There's plenty of "ends justify the means" situations involving the government that are not good things applied more generally. Hence, specifics matter.
- thghtihadanacct 3y ago
  I appreciate the point by point break down but > The military is allowed to invade countries and drop nukes, you aren't. The military is expressly disallowed from interfering in civilian affairs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act Is vice versa.

voz_ 3y ago

Yeah, it's part of the social contract? This is a good thing. It's the same reason I cant just grab a gun and start arresting people as a "good Samaritan".

flutas 3y ago
I mean, citizens arrest is a thing in many countries.[0] Immunity varies, laws vary, but it's definitely a thing... [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest