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On the other hand, we have the fact that listeria just killed a couple people due to ice cream machines not getting cleaned properly. https://www.cdc.gov/lister

On the other hand, we have the fact that listeria just killed a couple people due to ice cream machines not getting cleaned properly. https://www.cdc.gov/listeria/outbreaks/monocytogenes-06-22/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/listeria/outbreaks/monocytogenes-06-22/i... Franchise owners use 'hacks' to disable the lengthy cleaning process on their machines to make more money at the expense of our health.

ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
that seems like a unrelated issue, the machines here aren't being disabled due to non-cleaning also that was last year also there's nothing in your link about it being due to someone hacking their machine
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  It's also obvious that technical measures would be useless at preventing this. Checking whether a local restaurant is following safety standards is for the local Health Inspector, not the machine vendor -- who would have the incentive to help them cheat as the one paying for their machines, if they weren't running a scam that makes the machine return false positives on purpose to generate profitable service calls. A prohibition on "hacking" only protects the scam.
- adolph 3y ago
  Below is a milkshake listeria incident from this month. There is a balance to be sought between "right to repair" and safe operation of equipment. The discussion here [1] about dangers of ill informed self-service ebike batteries is an example. I'd like to see the standards for chilled dairy equipment maintenance before I would believe any claims about capabilities for self-repair. OLYMPIA – Listeria bacteria found in all milkshake flavors sold at Frugals restaurant at 10727 Pacific Ave. S., Tacoma, WA are associated with a foodborne listeriosis outbreak linked to six hospitalizations and three deaths. Investigators found Listeria in the ice cream machines, which were not cleaned correctly. No other Frugals restaurants are believed to be affected. The restaurant stopped using its ice cream machines Aug. 8, but Listeria can sicken people up to 70 days later. [0] 0. https://doh.wa.gov/newsroom/listeria-bacteria-found-milkshakes-sold-frugals-restaurant-tacoma https://doh.wa.gov/newsroom/listeria-bacteria-found-milkshak... 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37293557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37293557
bsder 3y ago
In the McDonald's case, though, it wasn't a "hack". It was simply reporting the error properly. Apparently one of the biggest failure modes is "overfull supply hopper doesn't heat fast enough". Just reporting that tells you what you need to do to fix the problem. Dump a couple cups out and rerun the cycle. Or "feed too viscous"--dump the entire thing and run water on a cycle. Then reload with a fresh batch. This seems to be emblematic of that machine. And, the problem isn't that these machines don't have good error reporting. The problem is the fact that these machines are terribly unreliable. A 15% failure rate is bad. However, there is no money to be gained from fixing the issues. So, neither Taylor nor McDonalds's will spend any money to fix it. It's also emblematic that, given the health sensitive nature of the machines, no other company attempts to do heating in place. I presume that somebody in those franchises looked at the reliability numbers and laughed Taylor out of the room.

ImPostingOnHN 3y ago

that seems like a unrelated issue, the machines here aren't being disabled due to non-cleaning also that was last year also there's nothing in your link about it being due to someone hacking their machine

AnthonyMouse 3y ago
It's also obvious that technical measures would be useless at preventing this. Checking whether a local restaurant is following safety standards is for the local Health Inspector, not the machine vendor -- who would have the incentive to help them cheat as the one paying for their machines, if they weren't running a scam that makes the machine return false positives on purpose to generate profitable service calls. A prohibition on "hacking" only protects the scam.
adolph 3y ago
Below is a milkshake listeria incident from this month. There is a balance to be sought between "right to repair" and safe operation of equipment. The discussion here [1] about dangers of ill informed self-service ebike batteries is an example. I'd like to see the standards for chilled dairy equipment maintenance before I would believe any claims about capabilities for self-repair. OLYMPIA – Listeria bacteria found in all milkshake flavors sold at Frugals restaurant at 10727 Pacific Ave. S., Tacoma, WA are associated with a foodborne listeriosis outbreak linked to six hospitalizations and three deaths. Investigators found Listeria in the ice cream machines, which were not cleaned correctly. No other Frugals restaurants are believed to be affected. The restaurant stopped using its ice cream machines Aug. 8, but Listeria can sicken people up to 70 days later. [0] 0. https://doh.wa.gov/newsroom/listeria-bacteria-found-milkshakes-sold-frugals-restaurant-tacoma https://doh.wa.gov/newsroom/listeria-bacteria-found-milkshak... 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37293557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37293557

bsder 3y ago

In the McDonald's case, though, it wasn't a "hack". It was simply reporting the error properly. Apparently one of the biggest failure modes is "overfull supply hopper doesn't heat fast enough". Just reporting that tells you what you need to do to fix the problem. Dump a couple cups out and rerun the cycle. Or "feed too viscous"--dump the entire thing and run water on a cycle. Then reload with a fresh batch. This seems to be emblematic of that machine. And, the problem isn't that these machines don't have good error reporting. The problem is the fact that these machines are terribly unreliable. A 15% failure rate is bad. However, there is no money to be gained from fixing the issues. So, neither Taylor nor McDonalds's will spend any money to fix it. It's also emblematic that, given the health sensitive nature of the machines, no other company attempts to do heating in place. I presume that somebody in those franchises looked at the reliability numbers and laughed Taylor out of the room.