3 ms·

If you add to that the right to camp in private woods, it becomes truly liberating. Here in Finland we call it "jokamiehenoikeus", "every man's right", or "free

If you add to that the right to camp in private woods, it becomes truly liberating. Here in Finland we call it "jokamiehenoikeus", "every man's right", or "freedom to roam". You can set up tent in any forest, regardless of land ownership.

mulmen 3y ago
Huh, that sounds neat but is a foreign concept to my American sensibilities. How far does that right extend? What's the line between a tent and a cabin? How much are you allowed to modify the environment to make it suitable for camping? How long are you allowed to stay before moving on? Are you required to remove your waste? How close can you be to an established dwelling?
- voisin 3y ago
  Somewhat related: in New Hampshire your rural property taxes go up if you post no trespassing/hunting signs. And if these signs are not posted, others have the right to roam over your land and hunt. I love the concept which I here fly recognizes the social value of land but preserves the right of landowners to pay for exclusivity.
  - mulmen 3y ago
    Are there protections to prevent squatting? I admit that this is intriguing, I'm just curious what the rules are. It seems easy to exploit so I assume someone already has.
    - banannaise 3y ago
      If someone is spending extended time on land that is otherwise completely unused... I fail to see the problem. In this way, "squatting" is like "jaywalking" -- a perfectly normal thing that we invented a crime for (typically on behalf of wealthier people against poorer ones). You can, of course, ask someone to leave your land if you need to use it. There's a reason that adverse possession takes years to decades.
      - mulmen 3y ago
        Come take a look at the greenbelts in Seattle for an idea of how bad it can be. Trash, human waste, clear cutting, erosion, fire, etc.
    - voisin 3y ago
      I believe it is for movement over land (roaming/hunting), not unrestricted access to set up shop and squat, leave a mess, etc. in that instance I assume the usual legal resolutions apply.
- eesmith 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam gives a good overview, with a specific entry for Finland. Here is a Finnish web site on the topic: https://www.visitfinland.com/en/articles/finnish-everyman-rights-the-right-to-roam/ https://www.visitfinland.com/en/articles/finnish-everyman-ri... . Here is another: https://www.nationalparks.fi/everymansright https://www.nationalparks.fi/everymansright . > "What's the line between a tent and a cabin?" You can pitch a tent. Not build a cabin, nor park a camper. Only temporarily. It looks like motorized transport on land isn't included (I wonder if e-bikes are allowed.) Though you can drive a motor vehicle on frozen lakes, rivers, and the sea, so perhaps you can take your camper out then and do some ice fishing? > "How much are you allowed to modify the environment to make it suitable for camping?" Not much: "It’s NOT allowed to… cut down or damage trees … collect moss, lichen, or fallen trees from other people's property … light open campfires without permission, except in an emergency". "In short, leave nothing but footprints behind." > "How long are you allowed to stay before moving on?" I can't find it for Finland. For Norway, "Tourists are allowed to stay in one spot for up to two days." > "Are you required to remove your waste?" It's forbidden to litter. I can't find what to do with poop - probably the usual burial is okay, depending on where you are. I would expect more notice about needing to carry it all out if that were required. > " How close can you be to an established dwelling?" A "reasonable distance from homes." Not "very near homes and other private buildings or through farm fields and nursery plantations which could easily be damaged". It looks like "200-300 feet" is reasonable, from one site.
  - mulmen 3y ago
    Thanks! That all sounds very reasonable, except maybe the poop. I wouldn't want a creek on my land to become popular on Instagram and then have to treat my water supply for the rest of my life. But maybe there are already laws about not leaving human waste in an area that threatens water supply.
- cjs_ac 3y ago
  The limits of the right to roam vary significantly between countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam?wprov=sfla1
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
Scotland also has freedom to roam. I don't know if goes as far as camping, but it definitely allows walking on private property.

mulmen 3y ago

Huh, that sounds neat but is a foreign concept to my American sensibilities. How far does that right extend? What's the line between a tent and a cabin? How much are you allowed to modify the environment to make it suitable for camping? How long are you allowed to stay before moving on? Are you required to remove your waste? How close can you be to an established dwelling?

voisin 3y ago
Somewhat related: in New Hampshire your rural property taxes go up if you post no trespassing/hunting signs. And if these signs are not posted, others have the right to roam over your land and hunt. I love the concept which I here fly recognizes the social value of land but preserves the right of landowners to pay for exclusivity.
- mulmen 3y ago
  Are there protections to prevent squatting? I admit that this is intriguing, I'm just curious what the rules are. It seems easy to exploit so I assume someone already has.
  - banannaise 3y ago
    If someone is spending extended time on land that is otherwise completely unused... I fail to see the problem. In this way, "squatting" is like "jaywalking" -- a perfectly normal thing that we invented a crime for (typically on behalf of wealthier people against poorer ones). You can, of course, ask someone to leave your land if you need to use it. There's a reason that adverse possession takes years to decades.
    - mulmen 3y ago
      Come take a look at the greenbelts in Seattle for an idea of how bad it can be. Trash, human waste, clear cutting, erosion, fire, etc.
  - voisin 3y ago
    I believe it is for movement over land (roaming/hunting), not unrestricted access to set up shop and squat, leave a mess, etc. in that instance I assume the usual legal resolutions apply.
eesmith 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam gives a good overview, with a specific entry for Finland. Here is a Finnish web site on the topic: https://www.visitfinland.com/en/articles/finnish-everyman-rights-the-right-to-roam/ https://www.visitfinland.com/en/articles/finnish-everyman-ri... . Here is another: https://www.nationalparks.fi/everymansright https://www.nationalparks.fi/everymansright . > "What's the line between a tent and a cabin?" You can pitch a tent. Not build a cabin, nor park a camper. Only temporarily. It looks like motorized transport on land isn't included (I wonder if e-bikes are allowed.) Though you can drive a motor vehicle on frozen lakes, rivers, and the sea, so perhaps you can take your camper out then and do some ice fishing? > "How much are you allowed to modify the environment to make it suitable for camping?" Not much: "It’s NOT allowed to… cut down or damage trees … collect moss, lichen, or fallen trees from other people's property … light open campfires without permission, except in an emergency". "In short, leave nothing but footprints behind." > "How long are you allowed to stay before moving on?" I can't find it for Finland. For Norway, "Tourists are allowed to stay in one spot for up to two days." > "Are you required to remove your waste?" It's forbidden to litter. I can't find what to do with poop - probably the usual burial is okay, depending on where you are. I would expect more notice about needing to carry it all out if that were required. > " How close can you be to an established dwelling?" A "reasonable distance from homes." Not "very near homes and other private buildings or through farm fields and nursery plantations which could easily be damaged". It looks like "200-300 feet" is reasonable, from one site.
- mulmen 3y ago
  Thanks! That all sounds very reasonable, except maybe the poop. I wouldn't want a creek on my land to become popular on Instagram and then have to treat my water supply for the rest of my life. But maybe there are already laws about not leaving human waste in an area that threatens water supply.
cjs_ac 3y ago
The limits of the right to roam vary significantly between countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam?wprov=sfla1

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

Scotland also has freedom to roam. I don't know if goes as far as camping, but it definitely allows walking on private property.