5 ms·

There is a road near my house with a wide, shaded bike lane. It's very nice, I use and enjoy it regularly. But regularly bikers decide, for no discernible reaso

There is a road near my house with a wide, shaded bike lane. It's very nice, I use and enjoy it regularly. But regularly bikers decide, for no discernible reason at all, to use the main road anyway, slowing down traffic. What's the point of investing in bike infrastructure if (some) bikers refuse to use it?

colpabar 3y ago
When you say “slow down traffic”, by how much? Do you actually mean you can’t go over the speed limit?
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  Posted speed limit in that area is 35 mph, faster than the bikers I see there. In practice traffic doesn't slow much because cars just pass the bikes, but I am a new driver and doing so always makes me nervous (especially as the road curves somewhat, so visibility can be limited).
  - mulmen 3y ago
    I took driver's education in 2000 so I admit I may be a bit rusty. When I learned to drive the "speed limit" was the upper limit. I don't recall there being a universal right to a minimum speed, that is unique to freeways. Depending on your state the bicyclist may be required to yield if they are delaying some number of other vehicles, but that is likely to vary. Maybe you can educate us on why you believe you have a right to pass these cyclists.
    - pandaman 3y ago
      Most states have rules against driving too slowly and impeding normal flow of traffic. Furthermore, most states have specific rules for bicycles and other slow vehicles to drive furthest to the right they can with exceptions allowed for left turns, obstacles etc.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    > always makes me nervous I primarily drive and am often nervous driving around pedestrians and cyclists. The reason for this feeling is that I understand, even if subconsciously, how easy it would be for me to harm them with my vehicle. If I imagine myself being the cyclist it's more worrying that I can't control other vehicles that could easily harm me. I constantly remind myself that the road was made for people and drivers are just one class of person -- the most dangerous one to others on the road at that. The best piece of advice I could give is to slow down and match the bikers' speed if you don't feel safe passing.
    - Gibbon1 3y ago
      I clipped a bicyclists back tire once. Flipped him over. He was mostly okay. Probably 95% his fault because he was riding against traffic, on the sidewalk, and ran a red light. I still felt really bad. When people come up with reasons why that won't care because logically they'll be in the right if something bad happens. All I can think is either they are sociopath or that they deeply lack life experience.
- blacksmith_tb 3y ago
  Well that would require enforcement, which seems to be rarer all the time. Which means changes to infrastructure (protected bike lanes, blocking through traffic on side streets, etc.) are more likely to produce good results.
taeric 3y ago
I'd be interested to see the specific road you are referencing? My gut shot would be that it isn't necessarily obvious that it could be used to avoid some parts of a road? (That is, you almost certainly had to be on the road for other parts of your ride. Not always obvious when there was a path you could do that got you off the road. And, of course, if it is a detour to get to the route...)
partitioned 3y ago
This. I don’t understand why the spandex wearing guys want to hold up dozens of people in traffic behind them so they can bike on vacation. It’s a real sense of entitlement that is just beyond me. If someone is riding a bike to get somewhere they need to go, and the road is the only choice then fine. But if you’re leisure riding on a road where the speed limit is 55 and sitting in the middle of the lane you’re an ass.
- mulmen 3y ago
  >I don’t understand why the spandex wearing guys want to hold up dozens of people in traffic behind them so they can bike on vacation. I can't speak for all spandex wearing cyclists but when I do that it is because I enjoy the scenery and the challenge. Are you equally frustrated with RVs? > It’s a real sense of entitlement that is just beyond me. You are the entitled one here. You have no right to a minimum speed on a road that allows cyclists. > But if you’re leisure riding on a road where the speed limit is 55 and sitting in the middle of the lane you’re an ass. I do this in all cases. If you can't get your vehicle fully into another lane to pass me then it's not a safe place to pass. If the speed limit is 55 that's a narrow highway and you have no exclusive right as a car. If you want that then stick to the freeways.
  - dang 3y ago
    Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- throw9away6 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - mulmen 3y ago
    This is both a safe assumption and a scary reality. I have had cars deliberately place themselves in a situation where I had to take evasive action on my motorcycle. Think about using a 6000lb object to physically intimidate a 400lb object for the perceived slight of being safely passed. This is on top of all the inattentive drivers.
concam 3y ago
>What's the point of investing in bike infrastructure if (some) bikers refuse to use it? The same reason we might invest in traffic lights or stop signs even though cars regularly ignore them.
- smileysteve 3y ago
  This is a bad example because it implies that the bikes aren't observing traffic laws. A more analogous would be that some cars choose to go off roading, or spend most of their time in driveways or parking lots - or some only drive to car shows. A much more accurate analogy would be cars that only drive in one lane and never use the left lane for passing.
Yujf 3y ago
The point is that the bikers that decide to use it are safe. That it can encourage more bikers and take cars off the road. The fact that some bikers so not use it does not invalidate the usefullnes of a bikelane
mulmen 3y ago
> But regularly bikers decide, for no discernible reason at all, to use the main road anyway, slowing down traffic. Bicycles are vehicles. They have the same right to use the road as cars. Cars have no right to a minimum speed on surface streets. Cars have an exclusive right to freeways. High rates of speed are poor etiquette on bicycle routes, in my neighborhood only the fast cyclists ride in the street but at speeds that would be inappropriate on the bike path in that area. Bicycle infrastructure tends to be an afterthought, even in the best cases. Can you describe this bike lane in more detail? Is it completely isolated from traffic? Is it mixed use with pedestrians? Here in Seattle the divided bike lanes run parallel to roads with a curb and parking between. This seems good but at intersections bike lanes still cross side streets. That creates an opportunity for (especially right) turning traffic to not see cyclists and turn into them when the bicycle is crossing, even with dedicated bicycle lights. Riding in the street is your best chance to be seen, and on a bicycle being seen is your best chance to stay alive.
- twiddling 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling John Forester's treatise "Effective Cycling" was a huge influence on me when it came to urban cycling.
  - oracle2025 3y ago
    Thanks for the link, I think I ride with a similar style in the city, but I wasn't aware there is a word for it.
- tzs 3y ago
  > Cars have no right to a minimum speed on surface streets Generally no one has a right to any specific minimum speed, but most states do have laws against impeding the normal flow of traffic [1]. [1] https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/traffic-tickets/impeding-traffic-by-driving-too-slowly.html https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/traffic-tickets/impedin...
giraffe_lady 3y ago
There's a stretch of road I ride regularly where I take the car lane despite there being a bike lane for reasons that are probably opaque to drivers: * It is a long, straight, very slightly downhill segment with long sight lines and no intersections; one of the few safe sprint opportunities on my rides * The bike lane surface is sloped slightly towards the outside of the road * The outside half of the bike lane has several storm drains, and often some dry leaves in it * The car speed limit is 30 mph. All this combines to make it a fast segment where it really only feels safe to go that fast in the car lane. I'm going the car speed limit so in theory it's not slowing traffic. In practice drivers perceive the speed limit to be the minimum they are entitled to and I get punish passed all the time there.
vanilla_nut 3y ago
Maybe those riders live on that street, or need to use the larger road briefly to access a turn that isn't safe to access via the bike lane? Or maybe they're riding faster than is comfortable on a shared path (kudos to them -- racing is not safe in an environment shared with pedestrians). Bicycles have every right to the road that cars do, so those bikes are perfectly entitled to use that road. Do they really slow down traffic that much? If that stretch of road has traffic lights, it probably doesn't make much of a difference.
throw9away6 3y ago
Is there car parking on the other side of the bike lane? It might be a safety thing with people pulling out and attacking you with doors
jkaptur 3y ago
> for no discernible reason at all Are you asking? Post the location and I'd be happy to weigh in from a cyclist's point of view.
matsemann 3y ago
I often see cars where I live drive on the street roads. I don't get it, why don't they all drive on the highway specifically made for them?
smileysteve 3y ago
A few reasons come to mind, mostly that bike infrastructure often seems designed by people who have never ridden a bike in traffic. First, those involving cars. - Turning Left while a bike lane is on a right. - Cars don't yield to the bike lane before turning right - Car occupants don't check a bike lane before opening door. - Car parked ahead in the bike lane. - Cars squeeze bikes next to the curb because the car can't maintain a lane / 3 foot is a really small distance at 30mph. Next, those involving infrastructure - Bike lane is made of segmented concrete; creating a thump and loss of traction every 3 feet, at 30mph. - Bike lane is the gutter of the street, and street sweepers never come so it has much trash to be dodged - Bike lane is shared with water infrastructure, where modifications lead to a longitudinal groove that is easy to get a small tire stuck in, get a flat, throw you unexpectedly. - Bike lane is shared with storm infrastructure, so it is sloping, or has drain grates that cause bumps, loss of traction, potential to throw you -- again at 30mph - Bike lane is "designed" for "recreation" with curves such that it is less efficient at getting from point a to b as quickly as the road.
- tensor 3y ago
  In Toronto other reasons cyclists don't use the bike lane and instead use the sidewalk asking pedestrians to get out of their way: - Need to walk their dog using their bike and don't want their dog in the bike lane. - Can't be bothered to cross the road to the right side and instead bike on the sidewalk to avoid other cyclists coming head on in the bike line on this side. - They just feel like it. 100% true story, I had a cyclist yell at me and call me names because I had the audacity to stop walking across the intersection as the cyclist blew through the red like at 30km/h. I suppose stopping to avoid getting hit by them interrupted their "flow" who knows. A small number of cyclists seem to have all the excuses for bad behaviour, but it doesn't make it ok. We need the infrastructure for cyclists, and bad behaviour by some is not a reason not to build it. But cyclists could definitely do more to be safe around pedestrians and at least try to live with drivers. Personally, when I cycle I obey all the stop lights and stop signs, I don't bike on the sidewalk, and instead of making a left I go through the intersection and wait for the light to change because my life is worth much more to me than trying to make some political show by blocking traffic in a left turn lane. It's just crazy dangerous doing that, even when there is a dedicated bike area for left turns. Blocking traffic won't make drivers any safer.

colpabar 3y ago

When you say “slow down traffic”, by how much? Do you actually mean you can’t go over the speed limit?

Georgelemental 3y ago
Posted speed limit in that area is 35 mph, faster than the bikers I see there. In practice traffic doesn't slow much because cars just pass the bikes, but I am a new driver and doing so always makes me nervous (especially as the road curves somewhat, so visibility can be limited).
- mulmen 3y ago
  I took driver's education in 2000 so I admit I may be a bit rusty. When I learned to drive the "speed limit" was the upper limit. I don't recall there being a universal right to a minimum speed, that is unique to freeways. Depending on your state the bicyclist may be required to yield if they are delaying some number of other vehicles, but that is likely to vary. Maybe you can educate us on why you believe you have a right to pass these cyclists.
  - pandaman 3y ago
    Most states have rules against driving too slowly and impeding normal flow of traffic. Furthermore, most states have specific rules for bicycles and other slow vehicles to drive furthest to the right they can with exceptions allowed for left turns, obstacles etc.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  > always makes me nervous I primarily drive and am often nervous driving around pedestrians and cyclists. The reason for this feeling is that I understand, even if subconsciously, how easy it would be for me to harm them with my vehicle. If I imagine myself being the cyclist it's more worrying that I can't control other vehicles that could easily harm me. I constantly remind myself that the road was made for people and drivers are just one class of person -- the most dangerous one to others on the road at that. The best piece of advice I could give is to slow down and match the bikers' speed if you don't feel safe passing.
  - Gibbon1 3y ago
    I clipped a bicyclists back tire once. Flipped him over. He was mostly okay. Probably 95% his fault because he was riding against traffic, on the sidewalk, and ran a red light. I still felt really bad. When people come up with reasons why that won't care because logically they'll be in the right if something bad happens. All I can think is either they are sociopath or that they deeply lack life experience.
blacksmith_tb 3y ago
Well that would require enforcement, which seems to be rarer all the time. Which means changes to infrastructure (protected bike lanes, blocking through traffic on side streets, etc.) are more likely to produce good results.

taeric 3y ago

I'd be interested to see the specific road you are referencing? My gut shot would be that it isn't necessarily obvious that it could be used to avoid some parts of a road? (That is, you almost certainly had to be on the road for other parts of your ride. Not always obvious when there was a path you could do that got you off the road. And, of course, if it is a detour to get to the route...)

partitioned 3y ago

This. I don’t understand why the spandex wearing guys want to hold up dozens of people in traffic behind them so they can bike on vacation. It’s a real sense of entitlement that is just beyond me. If someone is riding a bike to get somewhere they need to go, and the road is the only choice then fine. But if you’re leisure riding on a road where the speed limit is 55 and sitting in the middle of the lane you’re an ass.

mulmen 3y ago
>I don’t understand why the spandex wearing guys want to hold up dozens of people in traffic behind them so they can bike on vacation. I can't speak for all spandex wearing cyclists but when I do that it is because I enjoy the scenery and the challenge. Are you equally frustrated with RVs? > It’s a real sense of entitlement that is just beyond me. You are the entitled one here. You have no right to a minimum speed on a road that allows cyclists. > But if you’re leisure riding on a road where the speed limit is 55 and sitting in the middle of the lane you’re an ass. I do this in all cases. If you can't get your vehicle fully into another lane to pass me then it's not a safe place to pass. If the speed limit is 55 that's a narrow highway and you have no exclusive right as a car. If you want that then stick to the freeways.
- dang 3y ago
  Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
throw9away6 3y ago
[flagged]
- mulmen 3y ago
  This is both a safe assumption and a scary reality. I have had cars deliberately place themselves in a situation where I had to take evasive action on my motorcycle. Think about using a 6000lb object to physically intimidate a 400lb object for the perceived slight of being safely passed. This is on top of all the inattentive drivers.

concam 3y ago

>What's the point of investing in bike infrastructure if (some) bikers refuse to use it? The same reason we might invest in traffic lights or stop signs even though cars regularly ignore them.

smileysteve 3y ago
This is a bad example because it implies that the bikes aren't observing traffic laws. A more analogous would be that some cars choose to go off roading, or spend most of their time in driveways or parking lots - or some only drive to car shows. A much more accurate analogy would be cars that only drive in one lane and never use the left lane for passing.

Yujf 3y ago

The point is that the bikers that decide to use it are safe. That it can encourage more bikers and take cars off the road. The fact that some bikers so not use it does not invalidate the usefullnes of a bikelane

mulmen 3y ago

> But regularly bikers decide, for no discernible reason at all, to use the main road anyway, slowing down traffic. Bicycles are vehicles. They have the same right to use the road as cars. Cars have no right to a minimum speed on surface streets. Cars have an exclusive right to freeways. High rates of speed are poor etiquette on bicycle routes, in my neighborhood only the fast cyclists ride in the street but at speeds that would be inappropriate on the bike path in that area. Bicycle infrastructure tends to be an afterthought, even in the best cases. Can you describe this bike lane in more detail? Is it completely isolated from traffic? Is it mixed use with pedestrians? Here in Seattle the divided bike lanes run parallel to roads with a curb and parking between. This seems good but at intersections bike lanes still cross side streets. That creates an opportunity for (especially right) turning traffic to not see cyclists and turn into them when the bicycle is crossing, even with dedicated bicycle lights. Riding in the street is your best chance to be seen, and on a bicycle being seen is your best chance to stay alive.

twiddling 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling John Forester's treatise "Effective Cycling" was a huge influence on me when it came to urban cycling.
- oracle2025 3y ago
  Thanks for the link, I think I ride with a similar style in the city, but I wasn't aware there is a word for it.
tzs 3y ago
> Cars have no right to a minimum speed on surface streets Generally no one has a right to any specific minimum speed, but most states do have laws against impeding the normal flow of traffic [1]. [1] https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/traffic-tickets/impeding-traffic-by-driving-too-slowly.html https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/traffic-tickets/impedin...

giraffe_lady 3y ago

There's a stretch of road I ride regularly where I take the car lane despite there being a bike lane for reasons that are probably opaque to drivers: * It is a long, straight, very slightly downhill segment with long sight lines and no intersections; one of the few safe sprint opportunities on my rides * The bike lane surface is sloped slightly towards the outside of the road * The outside half of the bike lane has several storm drains, and often some dry leaves in it * The car speed limit is 30 mph. All this combines to make it a fast segment where it really only feels safe to go that fast in the car lane. I'm going the car speed limit so in theory it's not slowing traffic. In practice drivers perceive the speed limit to be the minimum they are entitled to and I get punish passed all the time there.

vanilla_nut 3y ago

Maybe those riders live on that street, or need to use the larger road briefly to access a turn that isn't safe to access via the bike lane? Or maybe they're riding faster than is comfortable on a shared path (kudos to them -- racing is not safe in an environment shared with pedestrians). Bicycles have every right to the road that cars do, so those bikes are perfectly entitled to use that road. Do they really slow down traffic that much? If that stretch of road has traffic lights, it probably doesn't make much of a difference.

throw9away6 3y ago

Is there car parking on the other side of the bike lane? It might be a safety thing with people pulling out and attacking you with doors

jkaptur 3y ago

> for no discernible reason at all Are you asking? Post the location and I'd be happy to weigh in from a cyclist's point of view.

matsemann 3y ago

I often see cars where I live drive on the street roads. I don't get it, why don't they all drive on the highway specifically made for them?

smileysteve 3y ago

A few reasons come to mind, mostly that bike infrastructure often seems designed by people who have never ridden a bike in traffic. First, those involving cars. - Turning Left while a bike lane is on a right. - Cars don't yield to the bike lane before turning right - Car occupants don't check a bike lane before opening door. - Car parked ahead in the bike lane. - Cars squeeze bikes next to the curb because the car can't maintain a lane / 3 foot is a really small distance at 30mph. Next, those involving infrastructure - Bike lane is made of segmented concrete; creating a thump and loss of traction every 3 feet, at 30mph. - Bike lane is the gutter of the street, and street sweepers never come so it has much trash to be dodged - Bike lane is shared with water infrastructure, where modifications lead to a longitudinal groove that is easy to get a small tire stuck in, get a flat, throw you unexpectedly. - Bike lane is shared with storm infrastructure, so it is sloping, or has drain grates that cause bumps, loss of traction, potential to throw you -- again at 30mph - Bike lane is "designed" for "recreation" with curves such that it is less efficient at getting from point a to b as quickly as the road.

tensor 3y ago
In Toronto other reasons cyclists don't use the bike lane and instead use the sidewalk asking pedestrians to get out of their way: - Need to walk their dog using their bike and don't want their dog in the bike lane. - Can't be bothered to cross the road to the right side and instead bike on the sidewalk to avoid other cyclists coming head on in the bike line on this side. - They just feel like it. 100% true story, I had a cyclist yell at me and call me names because I had the audacity to stop walking across the intersection as the cyclist blew through the red like at 30km/h. I suppose stopping to avoid getting hit by them interrupted their "flow" who knows. A small number of cyclists seem to have all the excuses for bad behaviour, but it doesn't make it ok. We need the infrastructure for cyclists, and bad behaviour by some is not a reason not to build it. But cyclists could definitely do more to be safe around pedestrians and at least try to live with drivers. Personally, when I cycle I obey all the stop lights and stop signs, I don't bike on the sidewalk, and instead of making a left I go through the intersection and wait for the light to change because my life is worth much more to me than trying to make some political show by blocking traffic in a left turn lane. It's just crazy dangerous doing that, even when there is a dedicated bike area for left turns. Blocking traffic won't make drivers any safer.