5 ms·

Germany does literally all the wrong moves when it comes to future of energy

by nixass 3y ago

nine_k 3y ago
Which is especially weird given that they have such a strong Green party.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- scarby2 3y ago
  the german green party is not very green. They actively opposed nuclear energy and got it shut down before there were other low carbon energy sources available to replace it. Which led directly to more coal and more gas being used. More ecological destruction and more CO2, it really contrary to any kind of good sense.
  - opless 3y ago
    That's pretty the much the same as the green party in the UK 1. No one wants a nuclear reactor in their back yard 2. Making a safe nuclear reactor takes skilled engineers 3. The only country with those skills in europe are in france (The UK folk have all mostly retired now) 4. Oil companies have been known to fund the likes of Greenpeace and CND to promote fear about nuclear power/weapons 5. Nuclear has a longer ROI than Fossil fuels, but rapidly overtakes the profits when it reaches ROI Investors want to make a quick buck. 6. Investment into safer nuclear reactors has been choked for many of the above reasons 7. Even without reprocessing, nuclear is an order of magnitude less damaging to the environment than Oil/Gas
    - _hypx 3y ago
      > 4. Oil companies have been known to fund the likes of Greenpeace and CND to promote fear about nuclear power/weapons It would be curious to see if there is a real conspiracy here, namely that green parties are really the creation of fossil fuel companies. Mainly to redirect and block credible environmental movements and replace them with ridiculous fearmongering groups with the goal of making fossil fuels the only option.
  - pohuing 3y ago
    Ah but that's quite unfair isn't it. Green+socdem had greener plans which were stopped by the following Conservative+liberal government in the late 00s. Then fukushima happened and in a knee jerk reaction conservatives rushed out of nuclear, paying off the remaining providers, all while shortly before then fucking over solar development in Germany. Now green is finally in gov again and can only look on the ruins left for them after 16 years of Conservative led power policy.
- pohuing 3y ago
  It's not the greens that fucked it up. They had a plan in the 90s which was supposed to transition to a renewable grid. Conservatives ruined it and had been in power for the past 16 years. The current rushed nuclear exit is solely their fault.
rurban 3y ago
Which is weird when they make all the right moves when it comes to future of energy. They are only ones to implement the switch to green energy, whilst all the oil, gas, coal, nuclear lobbyists are against it. Thanksfully those lobbyists are only loud in the press or forums, the industry knows that the old way is out.
- qsdf38100 3y ago
  Their CO2 emissions per capita are the largest in Europe after Poland. What makes you say they do all the right moves?
  - rurban 3y ago
    Coal is being phased out, nuclear already out. Solar and wind is rising. The right moves are to get rid of the polluters, and switch to sustainable energy
    - sBqQu3U0wH 3y ago
      >nuclear already out And how is this a "right move" exactly?
      - rurban 3y ago
        as long as you cannot get rid of the poison long-term, and cannot prevent multi-century poisoning in case of accidents, this is the right move. Just wait until you get your Diablo earthquake, and the whole Silicon Valley can shutdown. Exceptionalism game over.
        qsdf38100 3y ago
        Even in case of multi century poisoning, the affected area is small. The more radioactive the isotope, the faster it decays, so the poisoning isn’t really multi century. Chernobyl, the worst accident to date, is negligible in terms of poisoned area, and environmental impact. Orders of magnitude less than poisoning from fossil fuels. Your point simply doesn’t stand scientifically. It’s an ideological position, fueled by fear and disinformation. If we had other options, maybe, but we are against the climate change wall, and Germany is the perfect example of what’s wrong with your reasoning. So, tell me, when do you think Germany energy policies are going to shine, with actual CO2 numbers? In 20 years? 50 years? I believe it’s never going to shine, because it doesn’t work if you do the math. Wind turbines and solar energy aren’t going to fulfill all energy needs alone, for many reasons. We’d need orders of magnitude more, not to mention energy storage. Germany has built lots of them, it’s been at least 20 years, and they are still very very far from being clean. As I said they are the worst after Poland. How can you even argue?

Germany does literally all the wrong moves when it comes to future of energy

by nixass 3y ago

Germany does literally all the wrong moves when it comes to future of energy

nine_k 3y ago

Which is especially weird given that they have such a strong Green party.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
scarby2 3y ago
the german green party is not very green. They actively opposed nuclear energy and got it shut down before there were other low carbon energy sources available to replace it. Which led directly to more coal and more gas being used. More ecological destruction and more CO2, it really contrary to any kind of good sense.
- opless 3y ago
  That's pretty the much the same as the green party in the UK 1. No one wants a nuclear reactor in their back yard 2. Making a safe nuclear reactor takes skilled engineers 3. The only country with those skills in europe are in france (The UK folk have all mostly retired now) 4. Oil companies have been known to fund the likes of Greenpeace and CND to promote fear about nuclear power/weapons 5. Nuclear has a longer ROI than Fossil fuels, but rapidly overtakes the profits when it reaches ROI Investors want to make a quick buck. 6. Investment into safer nuclear reactors has been choked for many of the above reasons 7. Even without reprocessing, nuclear is an order of magnitude less damaging to the environment than Oil/Gas
  - _hypx 3y ago
    > 4. Oil companies have been known to fund the likes of Greenpeace and CND to promote fear about nuclear power/weapons It would be curious to see if there is a real conspiracy here, namely that green parties are really the creation of fossil fuel companies. Mainly to redirect and block credible environmental movements and replace them with ridiculous fearmongering groups with the goal of making fossil fuels the only option.
- pohuing 3y ago
  Ah but that's quite unfair isn't it. Green+socdem had greener plans which were stopped by the following Conservative+liberal government in the late 00s. Then fukushima happened and in a knee jerk reaction conservatives rushed out of nuclear, paying off the remaining providers, all while shortly before then fucking over solar development in Germany. Now green is finally in gov again and can only look on the ruins left for them after 16 years of Conservative led power policy.
pohuing 3y ago
It's not the greens that fucked it up. They had a plan in the 90s which was supposed to transition to a renewable grid. Conservatives ruined it and had been in power for the past 16 years. The current rushed nuclear exit is solely their fault.

rurban 3y ago

Which is weird when they make all the right moves when it comes to future of energy. They are only ones to implement the switch to green energy, whilst all the oil, gas, coal, nuclear lobbyists are against it. Thanksfully those lobbyists are only loud in the press or forums, the industry knows that the old way is out.

qsdf38100 3y ago
Their CO2 emissions per capita are the largest in Europe after Poland. What makes you say they do all the right moves?
- rurban 3y ago
  Coal is being phased out, nuclear already out. Solar and wind is rising. The right moves are to get rid of the polluters, and switch to sustainable energy
  - sBqQu3U0wH 3y ago
    >nuclear already out And how is this a "right move" exactly?
    - rurban 3y ago
      as long as you cannot get rid of the poison long-term, and cannot prevent multi-century poisoning in case of accidents, this is the right move. Just wait until you get your Diablo earthquake, and the whole Silicon Valley can shutdown. Exceptionalism game over.
      - qsdf38100 3y ago
        Even in case of multi century poisoning, the affected area is small. The more radioactive the isotope, the faster it decays, so the poisoning isn’t really multi century. Chernobyl, the worst accident to date, is negligible in terms of poisoned area, and environmental impact. Orders of magnitude less than poisoning from fossil fuels. Your point simply doesn’t stand scientifically. It’s an ideological position, fueled by fear and disinformation. If we had other options, maybe, but we are against the climate change wall, and Germany is the perfect example of what’s wrong with your reasoning. So, tell me, when do you think Germany energy policies are going to shine, with actual CO2 numbers? In 20 years? 50 years? I believe it’s never going to shine, because it doesn’t work if you do the math. Wind turbines and solar energy aren’t going to fulfill all energy needs alone, for many reasons. We’d need orders of magnitude more, not to mention energy storage. Germany has built lots of them, it’s been at least 20 years, and they are still very very far from being clean. As I said they are the worst after Poland. How can you even argue?