3 ms·

> How many residential appliances benefit from three phase I know of at least one, but I am ignorant of many other things and this just comes from my understan

by dijit 3y ago

> How many residential appliances benefit from three phase I know of at least one, but I am ignorant of many other things and this just comes from my understanding of AC motors but: Any directly connected AC fan will have enormous benefits in terms of performance and efficiency with three phase.

deleted 3y ago
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Kirby64 3y ago
Low current devices such as AC ceiling fans use so little current that the wire gauge is largely based on the minimum sizing for code standards. At least in the US, you can't put anything smaller than 14 gauge (AWG) in walls. Maybe in Europe they allow much smaller gauge, in which case maybe it makes sense... but usually there are minimum requirements for wiring since it becomes a structural issue (i.e., too thin of wire will break easily when pulled).
quickthrowman 3y ago
There is no benefit to performance or efficiency with a single-phase motor vs a three-phase motor. Controlling the motor with a VFD is how you increase the efficiency and performance of a three-phase motor, simply being a three-phase motor provides no efficiency benefit other than you can use slightly smaller conductors to power the motor.
- brianwawok 3y ago
  Why are large industrial motors three-phase? I almost always see large industry getting three-phase, which I assumed either gave more power or more efficiency.
  - thsksbd 3y ago
    It has nothing to do with efficiency (do the math on the conductor gauge and it all mostly cancels out) or power (idem) but the types of motors used (squirrel cage I believe). The problem is getting the motor to start spinning. You cant start all motors on just one or two phases. And if a motor isn't spinning, it's essentially a short.
    - midoridensha 3y ago
      No, very large single-speed industrial motors are synchronous motors, not squirrel-cage (induction). These motors cannot start spinning on any number of phases: they can only run at the synchronous speed (which is dictated by the power line frequency and the number of poles in the motor). And it's not a short; it just doesn't run at all if you supply power to it; it only works once it's at the synchronous speed. These motors are used because they're the most efficient type of AC motor. Induction motors have "slip" of around 3% IIRC.
  - quickthrowman 3y ago
    Basically what the sibling comment said, it’s easier to start a three-phase motor, and a three-phase motor will also run more smoothly as it is powered by 3 sine waves 120 degrees out of phase with each other which provides constant power; versus a single-phase motor being powered by a single sine wave that outputs no power at the middle of the sine wave with two power peaks, which doesn’t run as smoothly as three-phase power with no points of zero power output.

by dijit 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Kirby64 3y ago

Low current devices such as AC ceiling fans use so little current that the wire gauge is largely based on the minimum sizing for code standards. At least in the US, you can't put anything smaller than 14 gauge (AWG) in walls. Maybe in Europe they allow much smaller gauge, in which case maybe it makes sense... but usually there are minimum requirements for wiring since it becomes a structural issue (i.e., too thin of wire will break easily when pulled).

quickthrowman 3y ago

There is no benefit to performance or efficiency with a single-phase motor vs a three-phase motor. Controlling the motor with a VFD is how you increase the efficiency and performance of a three-phase motor, simply being a three-phase motor provides no efficiency benefit other than you can use slightly smaller conductors to power the motor.

brianwawok 3y ago
Why are large industrial motors three-phase? I almost always see large industry getting three-phase, which I assumed either gave more power or more efficiency.
- thsksbd 3y ago
  It has nothing to do with efficiency (do the math on the conductor gauge and it all mostly cancels out) or power (idem) but the types of motors used (squirrel cage I believe). The problem is getting the motor to start spinning. You cant start all motors on just one or two phases. And if a motor isn't spinning, it's essentially a short.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    No, very large single-speed industrial motors are synchronous motors, not squirrel-cage (induction). These motors cannot start spinning on any number of phases: they can only run at the synchronous speed (which is dictated by the power line frequency and the number of poles in the motor). And it's not a short; it just doesn't run at all if you supply power to it; it only works once it's at the synchronous speed. These motors are used because they're the most efficient type of AC motor. Induction motors have "slip" of around 3% IIRC.
- quickthrowman 3y ago
  Basically what the sibling comment said, it’s easier to start a three-phase motor, and a three-phase motor will also run more smoothly as it is powered by 3 sine waves 120 degrees out of phase with each other which provides constant power; versus a single-phase motor being powered by a single sine wave that outputs no power at the middle of the sine wave with two power peaks, which doesn’t run as smoothly as three-phase power with no points of zero power output.