4 ms·

Elon Musk Associates Say His Strange Behavior May Be Related to Ketamine Habit

10 points by laurex 3y ago

meepmorp 3y ago
[flagged]
- Aqueous 3y ago
  Because there couldn’t be a relationship between ‘causing brain lesions with frequent use’ and ‘acting weird?’
- legitster 3y ago
  ??? Ketamine is only ever recommended as a last ditch treatment in most situations as it comes with it a pretty high risk of psychotic issues. Which is the reason it is only really used on children - for some unknown reason they have much lower risk. But more importantly, you seem to be ignoring the fact that ketamine is intentionally being abused as a recreational drug exactly for it's psychotic effects. I think the link between abusing a drug for its psychotic effects and... uh... psychotic actions would be pretty direct.
  - meepmorp 3y ago
    It's used in combat and trauma medicine, as it doesn't drop blood pressure or cause respiratory depression.
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      If it's typically used in quantities large enough to have a decent chance of causing serious side effects like brain lesions and permanent personality changes then I'm very surprised.
      - meepmorp 3y ago
        That's with chronic use over a long period of time - think recreational users after a couple years.
    - snakeyjake 3y ago
      There is a vast gulf separating the administration of ketamine for pain relief in trauma patients or the sedation of persons with altered mental status during EMS transport and chronic unsupervised recreational use.
      - meepmorp 3y ago
        I know, and I never said or implied differently. I'm was originally making the point that is not a "HORSE DRUG," it's a drug that's approved for human use and has been for half a century.
        legitster 3y ago
        The Horse Drug thing is a bit of an inside joke - Ketamine is a pretty controlled substance, so many of the people who use it recreationally (allegedly) get it through veterinarian sources.
        meepmorp 3y ago
        Someone I know who's definitely not me has tried some special K diverted from a Mexican veterinary clinic.
- sbate1987 3y ago
  [dead]
I_Am_Nous 3y ago
I've never tried ketamine, but from what I understand it has dissociative effects similar to dextromethorphan and PCP. That's one reason why it's starting to gain acceptance as part of a depression/trauma treatment plan, because at low doses it can help "add space" between how someone feels and how their body is reacting to a trigger. Recreationally I've seen people describe it as "falling into the K hole" which sounds pretty dissociative. How much ketamine dissociation can people experience before their view of reality is warped in some way? Especially if continued recreational use can cause brain lesions.
rhelz 3y ago
Isn't it a bit, well just small-hearted, to be gossiping about somebody else's personal medical choices? And isn't it just a bit too convenient to be able to dismiss him by waving it off as due to drugs? Elon Musk's behavior is erratic in the same way that the output of a simple 3-line pseudo-random number generator is erratic: you have a hard time predicting what it will do next only because you don't know the reasoning behind it. Your behavior seems erratic to somebody who is way dumber than you or way less informed than you--because they just don't have what it takes to understand why you came to the conclusions you did and therefore why you are doing what you do. Now, just apply some recursive-self reflexion on this for a minute... I can't believe I'm here defending Elon Musk of all people; I certainly think he's made some questionable moves lately. But can we move beyond the personal stuff? Wouldn't it be a better public discussion if we kept it to the level of what are the consequences of these decisions?
- jfengel 3y ago
  Musk has a lot of control over the consequences of those decisions. Planning for the future necessarily means trying to understand his reasoning. He does have access to more information about his decisions than we do, but his choices are so erratic that it's hard to believe he has that much more information. It's so prominent that it was parodied in a film last year: "It's so dumb, it's brilliant!" "No, it's just dumb!" So maybe he's playing the fabled "four dimensional chess", in which all his choices make sense from some perspective which is hidden from us. But those choices are important enough that we also have to take seriously the notion that they're being made irrationally, and we can expect future choices to also be made badly. That doesn't justify the invasion of privacy his associates seem to be making here. His private medical choices are his business. But the unjustified release of that information is still information -- albeit qualified by the fact that it's unreliable.
akomtu 3y ago
Let's not turn HN into another rumors farm gossiping about celebrities.

10 points by laurex 3y ago

meepmorp 3y ago

[flagged]

Aqueous 3y ago
Because there couldn’t be a relationship between ‘causing brain lesions with frequent use’ and ‘acting weird?’
legitster 3y ago
??? Ketamine is only ever recommended as a last ditch treatment in most situations as it comes with it a pretty high risk of psychotic issues. Which is the reason it is only really used on children - for some unknown reason they have much lower risk. But more importantly, you seem to be ignoring the fact that ketamine is intentionally being abused as a recreational drug exactly for it's psychotic effects. I think the link between abusing a drug for its psychotic effects and... uh... psychotic actions would be pretty direct.
- meepmorp 3y ago
  It's used in combat and trauma medicine, as it doesn't drop blood pressure or cause respiratory depression.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    If it's typically used in quantities large enough to have a decent chance of causing serious side effects like brain lesions and permanent personality changes then I'm very surprised.
    - meepmorp 3y ago
      That's with chronic use over a long period of time - think recreational users after a couple years.
  - snakeyjake 3y ago
    There is a vast gulf separating the administration of ketamine for pain relief in trauma patients or the sedation of persons with altered mental status during EMS transport and chronic unsupervised recreational use.
    - meepmorp 3y ago
      I know, and I never said or implied differently. I'm was originally making the point that is not a "HORSE DRUG," it's a drug that's approved for human use and has been for half a century.
      - legitster 3y ago
        The Horse Drug thing is a bit of an inside joke - Ketamine is a pretty controlled substance, so many of the people who use it recreationally (allegedly) get it through veterinarian sources.
        meepmorp 3y ago
        Someone I know who's definitely not me has tried some special K diverted from a Mexican veterinary clinic.
sbate1987 3y ago
[dead]

I_Am_Nous 3y ago

I've never tried ketamine, but from what I understand it has dissociative effects similar to dextromethorphan and PCP. That's one reason why it's starting to gain acceptance as part of a depression/trauma treatment plan, because at low doses it can help "add space" between how someone feels and how their body is reacting to a trigger. Recreationally I've seen people describe it as "falling into the K hole" which sounds pretty dissociative. How much ketamine dissociation can people experience before their view of reality is warped in some way? Especially if continued recreational use can cause brain lesions.

rhelz 3y ago

Isn't it a bit, well just small-hearted, to be gossiping about somebody else's personal medical choices? And isn't it just a bit too convenient to be able to dismiss him by waving it off as due to drugs? Elon Musk's behavior is erratic in the same way that the output of a simple 3-line pseudo-random number generator is erratic: you have a hard time predicting what it will do next only because you don't know the reasoning behind it. Your behavior seems erratic to somebody who is way dumber than you or way less informed than you--because they just don't have what it takes to understand why you came to the conclusions you did and therefore why you are doing what you do. Now, just apply some recursive-self reflexion on this for a minute... I can't believe I'm here defending Elon Musk of all people; I certainly think he's made some questionable moves lately. But can we move beyond the personal stuff? Wouldn't it be a better public discussion if we kept it to the level of what are the consequences of these decisions?

jfengel 3y ago
Musk has a lot of control over the consequences of those decisions. Planning for the future necessarily means trying to understand his reasoning. He does have access to more information about his decisions than we do, but his choices are so erratic that it's hard to believe he has that much more information. It's so prominent that it was parodied in a film last year: "It's so dumb, it's brilliant!" "No, it's just dumb!" So maybe he's playing the fabled "four dimensional chess", in which all his choices make sense from some perspective which is hidden from us. But those choices are important enough that we also have to take seriously the notion that they're being made irrationally, and we can expect future choices to also be made badly. That doesn't justify the invasion of privacy his associates seem to be making here. His private medical choices are his business. But the unjustified release of that information is still information -- albeit qualified by the fact that it's unreliable.

akomtu 3y ago

Let's not turn HN into another rumors farm gossiping about celebrities.