5 ms·

I find the push for "back to the office" one of the most astonishing things to come out of corporate America. We've basically been moving to a model where peop

I find the push for "back to the office" one of the most astonishing things to come out of corporate America. We've basically been moving to a model where people can work from home for a few decades. We're reached a point where it's not only feasible, but it's senseless to do otherwise for many positions. And then, suddenly and out of the blue, a lot of CEOs and upper management started demanding that employees go back to the office. There's really no reason to do this; data has proven over and over that people can work more productively from home. Nobody wants to waste time to work in a noisy, less comfortable environment. Yet the lords and dukes of our day demand that the commoners go back to the office or fine subsistence elsewhere. My impression so far is that it's done mostly to filter compliant employees from the more dangerous "free thinkers" which might question senseless commands. These years are going to be a fascinating read in future history books.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
p0wn 3y ago
Tbe slavemasters want control. Will the American public follow orders?
rdtsc 3y ago
> Nobody wants to waste time to work in a noisy, less comfortable environment. Except CEOs because they have nice comfortable offices, flexibility, assistants handling interruptions, and they don't have to spend long periods of time focusing. Looking over the heads of their minions is a tacit affirmation of their power and influence. Just like looking over an empty building full of open office desks without workers is kind of sad and disappointing. "Have I failed as a leader? I didn't, surely. But then, why is there is nobody here? We should fix this...".
- slothtrop 3y ago
  I think middle-management has an instinct of self-preservation and they know that remote work could make some of them redundant. But I also think you're right that physically looming over and supervising is what some may be most interested in doing.
  - HelloMcFly 3y ago
    I think most "middle managers" want to WFH. It's more senior management driving RTO.
    - slothtrop 3y ago
      What would their incentive be, versus middle management?
      - rdtsc 3y ago
        I would guess wanting to align with the CEO. One day they hope to be a CxO of some sort. So that means reading the mind and following the example of the current CEO. They won't get further up the pyramid by advocating against the explicit (or perceived) wishes of their dear leader.
  - rchaud 3y ago
    Middle management isn't making this call though.
s_dev 3y ago
> I find the push for "back to the office" one of the most astonishing things to come out of corporate America. Surely the pattern here is: Back to Office Announcement --> Employees leaving voluntarily (No severance payouts) --> Lay-offs Announcement (Severance payouts) I thought it was just an easy way to get out of severance payments or this model too simplistic?
- jochem9 3y ago
  Sounds a lot more plausible than the theory that upper management is conspiring to protect their commercial real estate investments. It does require that people need to be laid off. Not sure if that's still the case? Overhere in the Netherlands we have a huge labour shortage, including in tech.
geodel 3y ago
> from the more dangerous "free thinkers" which might question senseless commands. Still need to be seen these courageous free thinkers keep serving corporate overlords or venture out based on their own free spirit. So far we have lot of principled stand but little concrete action from thinking class.
electriclove 3y ago
I think at some of these large corporations and definitely in the public sector, there are tons of people who do not perform well especially now that they are remote. I think this is a way to get rid of those people.
unethical_ban 3y ago
There is a silenced minority of people who feel that in office participation is better for learning, collaboration, brainstorming, even in technical fields. I'm not going to argue with your convince you to change your mind about RTO, but don't use the term nobody. I'll add that I understand there are many benefits to remote work, including some that I truly enjoy. And that I'm not sure CEOs care about my personal career growth or how much I benefit from in-person collaboration. I believe they're pushing it for real estate reasons.
- WhyNotHugo 3y ago
  > There is a silenced minority of people who feel that in office participation is better for learning, collaboration, brainstorming, even in technical fields. There definitely are situations when going to the office can be beneficial (brainstorming day, team-bonding activities, etc). It's important for people to have a choice to go to an office when needed. RTO is about forcing people to go to the office, even when they deem it unnecessary and unproductive for their work.
  - unethical_ban 3y ago
    Those benefits you list require the attendance of all, and sometimes you need to participate with coworkers whether you like it or not.
RestlessMind 3y ago
> data has proven over and over that people can work more productively from home. Citation needed. Not my experience at all.
- smileysteve 3y ago
  https://healthworkerburnout.com/is-working-from-home-more-productive-here-are-the-facts/ https://healthworkerburnout.com/is-working-from-home-more-pr... Happy workers are more productive, research shows | World Economic Forum (weforum.org) New Survey Shows 47% Increase In Productivity: 3 Things You Must Do When Working From Home (forbes.com) The Ultimate List Of Remote Work Statistics – 2021 Edition (smallbizgenius.net) Remote Workers Are More Productive – businessnewsdaily.com The productivity pitfalls of working from home in the age of COVID-19 | Stanford News Study Finds Productivity Not Deterred by Shift to Remote Work (shrm.org) 66% of U.S. Employees Are Working Remotely at Least Part-Time During the COVID-19 Pandemic (prnewswire.com) *used the first source from the chat response I received from a search engine
  - RestlessMind 3y ago
    Doesn't look like a reliable list at all. No wonder you got it from a chat response which are typically glib but useless. Addressing some of those at random > Happy workers are more productive, research shows doesn't say if WFH increases or decreases overall happiness. So not a citation. > The Ultimate List Of Remote Work Statistics – 2021 Edition (smallbizgenius.net) Haha. It opens with "Remote work is hands down one of the most desirable benefits an employer can offer." Rest of the article is full of biases. > 66% of U.S. Employees Are Working Remotely at Least Part-Time During the COVID-19 Pandemic (prnewswire.com) Doesn't look like the citation at all. Covid was a unique situation where no one had any choice.
P_I_Staker 3y ago
> I find the push for "back to the office" one of the most astonishing things to come out of corporate America. Really? Because this was obvious to me from the beginning and ever since. When we were hearing "remote working is going so well" there was also a white hot labor market and companies wanted to keep employees on board. That an everyone was doing remote. Now that full remote is less common they can do more and more. Executives were not happy with this from the beginning. Even team/department leads would often prefer commute themselves so they can see their team being good worker bees for them and see "who the lazy ones are". Also, I haven't seen this mentioned much, but it gives them more power to claim someone is a bad worker. They can see them not at their desk, or write them up for not making it in, being late, etc. There may be many companies that would never be this direct: you were late once, so here's a write-up, especially while other employees get a pass. In any case it gives a much better position to negotiate these things, however the employer chooses.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

p0wn 3y ago

Tbe slavemasters want control. Will the American public follow orders?

rdtsc 3y ago

> Nobody wants to waste time to work in a noisy, less comfortable environment. Except CEOs because they have nice comfortable offices, flexibility, assistants handling interruptions, and they don't have to spend long periods of time focusing. Looking over the heads of their minions is a tacit affirmation of their power and influence. Just like looking over an empty building full of open office desks without workers is kind of sad and disappointing. "Have I failed as a leader? I didn't, surely. But then, why is there is nobody here? We should fix this...".

slothtrop 3y ago
I think middle-management has an instinct of self-preservation and they know that remote work could make some of them redundant. But I also think you're right that physically looming over and supervising is what some may be most interested in doing.
- HelloMcFly 3y ago
  I think most "middle managers" want to WFH. It's more senior management driving RTO.
  - slothtrop 3y ago
    What would their incentive be, versus middle management?
    - rdtsc 3y ago
      I would guess wanting to align with the CEO. One day they hope to be a CxO of some sort. So that means reading the mind and following the example of the current CEO. They won't get further up the pyramid by advocating against the explicit (or perceived) wishes of their dear leader.
- rchaud 3y ago
  Middle management isn't making this call though.

s_dev 3y ago

> I find the push for "back to the office" one of the most astonishing things to come out of corporate America. Surely the pattern here is: Back to Office Announcement --> Employees leaving voluntarily (No severance payouts) --> Lay-offs Announcement (Severance payouts) I thought it was just an easy way to get out of severance payments or this model too simplistic?

jochem9 3y ago
Sounds a lot more plausible than the theory that upper management is conspiring to protect their commercial real estate investments. It does require that people need to be laid off. Not sure if that's still the case? Overhere in the Netherlands we have a huge labour shortage, including in tech.

geodel 3y ago

> from the more dangerous "free thinkers" which might question senseless commands. Still need to be seen these courageous free thinkers keep serving corporate overlords or venture out based on their own free spirit. So far we have lot of principled stand but little concrete action from thinking class.

electriclove 3y ago

I think at some of these large corporations and definitely in the public sector, there are tons of people who do not perform well especially now that they are remote. I think this is a way to get rid of those people.

unethical_ban 3y ago

There is a silenced minority of people who feel that in office participation is better for learning, collaboration, brainstorming, even in technical fields. I'm not going to argue with your convince you to change your mind about RTO, but don't use the term nobody. I'll add that I understand there are many benefits to remote work, including some that I truly enjoy. And that I'm not sure CEOs care about my personal career growth or how much I benefit from in-person collaboration. I believe they're pushing it for real estate reasons.

WhyNotHugo 3y ago
> There is a silenced minority of people who feel that in office participation is better for learning, collaboration, brainstorming, even in technical fields. There definitely are situations when going to the office can be beneficial (brainstorming day, team-bonding activities, etc). It's important for people to have a choice to go to an office when needed. RTO is about forcing people to go to the office, even when they deem it unnecessary and unproductive for their work.
- unethical_ban 3y ago
  Those benefits you list require the attendance of all, and sometimes you need to participate with coworkers whether you like it or not.

RestlessMind 3y ago

> data has proven over and over that people can work more productively from home. Citation needed. Not my experience at all.

smileysteve 3y ago
https://healthworkerburnout.com/is-working-from-home-more-productive-here-are-the-facts/ https://healthworkerburnout.com/is-working-from-home-more-pr... Happy workers are more productive, research shows | World Economic Forum (weforum.org) New Survey Shows 47% Increase In Productivity: 3 Things You Must Do When Working From Home (forbes.com) The Ultimate List Of Remote Work Statistics – 2021 Edition (smallbizgenius.net) Remote Workers Are More Productive – businessnewsdaily.com The productivity pitfalls of working from home in the age of COVID-19 | Stanford News Study Finds Productivity Not Deterred by Shift to Remote Work (shrm.org) 66% of U.S. Employees Are Working Remotely at Least Part-Time During the COVID-19 Pandemic (prnewswire.com) *used the first source from the chat response I received from a search engine
- RestlessMind 3y ago
  Doesn't look like a reliable list at all. No wonder you got it from a chat response which are typically glib but useless. Addressing some of those at random > Happy workers are more productive, research shows doesn't say if WFH increases or decreases overall happiness. So not a citation. > The Ultimate List Of Remote Work Statistics – 2021 Edition (smallbizgenius.net) Haha. It opens with "Remote work is hands down one of the most desirable benefits an employer can offer." Rest of the article is full of biases. > 66% of U.S. Employees Are Working Remotely at Least Part-Time During the COVID-19 Pandemic (prnewswire.com) Doesn't look like the citation at all. Covid was a unique situation where no one had any choice.

P_I_Staker 3y ago

> I find the push for "back to the office" one of the most astonishing things to come out of corporate America. Really? Because this was obvious to me from the beginning and ever since. When we were hearing "remote working is going so well" there was also a white hot labor market and companies wanted to keep employees on board. That an everyone was doing remote. Now that full remote is less common they can do more and more. Executives were not happy with this from the beginning. Even team/department leads would often prefer commute themselves so they can see their team being good worker bees for them and see "who the lazy ones are". Also, I haven't seen this mentioned much, but it gives them more power to claim someone is a bad worker. They can see them not at their desk, or write them up for not making it in, being late, etc. There may be many companies that would never be this direct: you were late once, so here's a write-up, especially while other employees get a pass. In any case it gives a much better position to negotiate these things, however the employer chooses.