4 ms·

That's true. On the other hand California is 1/6th of the USA's economy, and 12% of the population. The "Southwest, Great Plains, plus California" is a signifi

That's true. On the other hand California is 1/6th of the USA's economy, and 12% of the population. The "Southwest, Great Plains, plus California" is a significant part of the USA.

tristor 3y ago
I would argue that the NY Times writing about "America" as if California + New York == America far predates the magnitude of economic importance California and New York now have. There has long been a coastal bias in the US, which predates the migrations of business and population to the coasts, where everything in the middle is disdained and not due any consideration. The reality is, when it comes to groundwater anyway, all you need to do is look at land area vs mountain ranges and you can form a pretty intuitive understanding of water flows, since water flows to the lowest spots until it eventually reaches the sea or seeps into the ground. The parent to your post is very correct, California because most of the state is between the sea and a close-in mountain range has minimal ground water outside its direct watersheds, and must use intentional irrigation and pumping to move and use water. Consequently, they are one of the primary users of water originating in other parts of the country. As someone residing in Colorado, we are /well/ (no pun intended) aware of how water is used and how water rights work, and the reality is that California has an out-sized usage compared to other states, and frankly takes more than its fair share.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  The vast majority of its "out-sized usage" is because it grows the fruits and vegetables for the rest of the nation. 75% or more of CA water use is for agriculture (also true of the other southwestern states). Per-capita use in cities and towns has been declining (in some cases, by huge amounts), and in general southwestern-resident humans use far less water than their upper-midwestern or east coast cousins.
  - linuxftw 3y ago
    California grows very little for the 'rest' of the nation. Outside of oranges and almonds, most produce is produced regionally during the growing season.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
      Sorry, but this is absolutely false. > Over a third of the country’s vegetables and three-quarters of the country’s fruits and nuts are grown in California. https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/Statistics/ https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/Statistics/ > California is America’s food-producing powerhouse. Despite being home to just 4 percent of the farms and ranches in the country—83,217 of them, according to the most recent United States Census of Agriculture—the state generates 11.04 percent of the U.S. agricultural value. In 2021, that meant $54.5 million in cash receipts from agriculture poured into California. In fact, California is the fifth-largest supplier of food and other agricultural products in the world. The Central Valley alone—the 400-mile-long, 50-mile-wide region starting just south of Bakersfield and extending northward to Redding—produces 8 percent of America’s food supply though it contains just 1 percent of the country’s farmland. Half of all fruits and vegetables grown in the U.S. come from California, and the state effectively produces all (at least 99 percent) of America’s almonds, pistachios, pomegranates, and walnuts. California is also the nation’s leading grower of lima beans, lemons, kumquats, raspberries, strawberries, and spinach—to name just a few. https://californialocal.com/localnews/statewide/ca/article/show/36707-california-agriculture-dairy-wheat-fruit-vegetables/ https://californialocal.com/localnews/statewide/ca/article/s...
      - linuxftw 3y ago
        > the state generates 11.04 percent of the U.S. agricultural value That's about the percentage of the US population that resides in California. If they produce 8% of America's food supply, that means they're a net importer. As I said, most of the country doesn't get produce from California. It's regional.
        PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
        that's 11% of the "value" (money). that's cherrypicking from the statistics i quoted. if you want to mess around with that sort of thing, look up calorie production.

That's true. On the other hand California is 1/6th of the USA's economy, and 12% of the population. The "Southwest, Great Plains, plus California" is a significant part of the USA.

tristor 3y ago

I would argue that the NY Times writing about "America" as if California + New York == America far predates the magnitude of economic importance California and New York now have. There has long been a coastal bias in the US, which predates the migrations of business and population to the coasts, where everything in the middle is disdained and not due any consideration. The reality is, when it comes to groundwater anyway, all you need to do is look at land area vs mountain ranges and you can form a pretty intuitive understanding of water flows, since water flows to the lowest spots until it eventually reaches the sea or seeps into the ground. The parent to your post is very correct, California because most of the state is between the sea and a close-in mountain range has minimal ground water outside its direct watersheds, and must use intentional irrigation and pumping to move and use water. Consequently, they are one of the primary users of water originating in other parts of the country. As someone residing in Colorado, we are /well/ (no pun intended) aware of how water is used and how water rights work, and the reality is that California has an out-sized usage compared to other states, and frankly takes more than its fair share.

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
The vast majority of its "out-sized usage" is because it grows the fruits and vegetables for the rest of the nation. 75% or more of CA water use is for agriculture (also true of the other southwestern states). Per-capita use in cities and towns has been declining (in some cases, by huge amounts), and in general southwestern-resident humans use far less water than their upper-midwestern or east coast cousins.
- linuxftw 3y ago
  California grows very little for the 'rest' of the nation. Outside of oranges and almonds, most produce is produced regionally during the growing season.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    Sorry, but this is absolutely false. > Over a third of the country’s vegetables and three-quarters of the country’s fruits and nuts are grown in California. https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/Statistics/ https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/Statistics/ > California is America’s food-producing powerhouse. Despite being home to just 4 percent of the farms and ranches in the country—83,217 of them, according to the most recent United States Census of Agriculture—the state generates 11.04 percent of the U.S. agricultural value. In 2021, that meant $54.5 million in cash receipts from agriculture poured into California. In fact, California is the fifth-largest supplier of food and other agricultural products in the world. The Central Valley alone—the 400-mile-long, 50-mile-wide region starting just south of Bakersfield and extending northward to Redding—produces 8 percent of America’s food supply though it contains just 1 percent of the country’s farmland. Half of all fruits and vegetables grown in the U.S. come from California, and the state effectively produces all (at least 99 percent) of America’s almonds, pistachios, pomegranates, and walnuts. California is also the nation’s leading grower of lima beans, lemons, kumquats, raspberries, strawberries, and spinach—to name just a few. https://californialocal.com/localnews/statewide/ca/article/show/36707-california-agriculture-dairy-wheat-fruit-vegetables/ https://californialocal.com/localnews/statewide/ca/article/s...
    - linuxftw 3y ago
      > the state generates 11.04 percent of the U.S. agricultural value That's about the percentage of the US population that resides in California. If they produce 8% of America's food supply, that means they're a net importer. As I said, most of the country doesn't get produce from California. It's regional.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
        that's 11% of the "value" (money). that's cherrypicking from the statistics i quoted. if you want to mess around with that sort of thing, look up calorie production.