4 ms·

Germany and several other EU countries have deposits on plastic bottles. I’m not sure how much that helps with the microplastics issue, though.

soco 3y ago
They have for the PET bottles, yes, but there are still thousands of other packaging types which just get dumped in garbage with unknown destinations. I cannot really imagine a deposit on those (do you want stinky meat packages returned to the shop?) but still we need to find a solution.
- Semaphor 3y ago
  Most of it ends up in landfills which are relatively safe IIRC from other microplastic articles?
  - soco 3y ago
    Leachate analysis says otherwise: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004313541930377X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00431...
    - Semaphor 3y ago
      Well, there goes that :/ Thanks.
- psychoslave 3y ago
  Bottle in glass, aluminum or paper. Beers, various soda and juice already use that
  - zo1 3y ago
    Don't cans have a plastic lining on the inside so that the liquid doesn't touch the metal? Same goes for paper from what another commenter said about paper straws. Heck I wouldn't trust paper food packaging because I'm not sure they would use a wax liner instead of some fancy PFAS forever chemical.
  - soco 3y ago
    The salad head comes in a plastic bag. The pork chop is sealed in plastic. Sausages are coming with plastic labels, single use bags are still everywhere, and let's not forget the hard wrappings of tools or toys. Can we put all all those in waxed paper? And what exactly will that "wax" be?
konschubert 3y ago
It doesn't help with ocean pollution at all, because plastic rubbish from Germany and other EU countries wouldn't end up in the ocean either.
- tuukkah 3y ago
  Don't you think the payment incentivises people to return their bottles for reuse versus leaving them lying at parks etc.?
  - joncrocks 3y ago
    Yes, it might. I think the point the grandparent comment was making was that plastic rubbish in parks most likely will not end up in the oceans. I think the most common sources are: * Plastic netting * Plastics from countries without any/lacking waste infrastructure
    - tuukkah 3y ago
      Well, plastics that end up in the environment will degrade by the elements into microplastics, and rainwater will carry them to the oceans (or salt lakes, but I know none in Germany). There are differences in statistics between EU countries, they might tell something interesting. EDIT: "considered to be at risk of missing one or more material-specific targets, with plastic being the most critical material: Plastics: Austria, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Luxembourg, Malta, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia and Spain" https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=COM%3A2023%3A304%3AFIN&qid=1686220362244 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=COM%3A20...
- trickstra 3y ago
  That is unless they sell it to Philippines who promptly dump it into rivers, which is exactly what happens. https://www.dw.com/en/german-plastic-floods-southeast-asia/a-47204773 https://www.dw.com/en/german-plastic-floods-southeast-asia/a...

soco 3y ago

They have for the PET bottles, yes, but there are still thousands of other packaging types which just get dumped in garbage with unknown destinations. I cannot really imagine a deposit on those (do you want stinky meat packages returned to the shop?) but still we need to find a solution.

Semaphor 3y ago
Most of it ends up in landfills which are relatively safe IIRC from other microplastic articles?
- soco 3y ago
  Leachate analysis says otherwise: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004313541930377X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00431...
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    Well, there goes that :/ Thanks.
psychoslave 3y ago
Bottle in glass, aluminum or paper. Beers, various soda and juice already use that
- zo1 3y ago
  Don't cans have a plastic lining on the inside so that the liquid doesn't touch the metal? Same goes for paper from what another commenter said about paper straws. Heck I wouldn't trust paper food packaging because I'm not sure they would use a wax liner instead of some fancy PFAS forever chemical.
- soco 3y ago
  The salad head comes in a plastic bag. The pork chop is sealed in plastic. Sausages are coming with plastic labels, single use bags are still everywhere, and let's not forget the hard wrappings of tools or toys. Can we put all all those in waxed paper? And what exactly will that "wax" be?

konschubert 3y ago

It doesn't help with ocean pollution at all, because plastic rubbish from Germany and other EU countries wouldn't end up in the ocean either.

tuukkah 3y ago
Don't you think the payment incentivises people to return their bottles for reuse versus leaving them lying at parks etc.?
- joncrocks 3y ago
  Yes, it might. I think the point the grandparent comment was making was that plastic rubbish in parks most likely will not end up in the oceans. I think the most common sources are: * Plastic netting * Plastics from countries without any/lacking waste infrastructure
  - tuukkah 3y ago
    Well, plastics that end up in the environment will degrade by the elements into microplastics, and rainwater will carry them to the oceans (or salt lakes, but I know none in Germany). There are differences in statistics between EU countries, they might tell something interesting. EDIT: "considered to be at risk of missing one or more material-specific targets, with plastic being the most critical material: Plastics: Austria, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Luxembourg, Malta, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia and Spain" https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=COM%3A2023%3A304%3AFIN&qid=1686220362244 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=COM%3A20...
trickstra 3y ago
That is unless they sell it to Philippines who promptly dump it into rivers, which is exactly what happens. https://www.dw.com/en/german-plastic-floods-southeast-asia/a-47204773 https://www.dw.com/en/german-plastic-floods-southeast-asia/a...