4 ms·

Nice to rub it in our faces, I guess. Thanks, Exxon. They knew about this in the 1980s, and have actively laboured to hide it from the public[1]. [1]: https:/

Nice to rub it in our faces, I guess. Thanks, Exxon. They knew about this in the 1980s, and have actively laboured to hide it from the public[1]. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/sep/19/shell-and-exxons-secret-1980s-climate-change-warnings https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97... Edit: People have got to stop assuming that commenters are American...

flakeoil 3y ago
Well, everyone did, or at least the US congress. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NOdTEIihFU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NOdTEIihFU It's easy to blame the oil companies, but in fact, the governments around the world did not care or do anything about it. Car manufacturers did nothing to decrease size of their cars or fuel efficiency (certainly not the last 20 years). And consumers did not bother to buy smaller and more fuel efficient cars. Everyone has known about global warming for 40 years. Everyone blames oil companies and not themselves. If we completely stopped to use or at least massively reduced the usage of oil then there would be no rich oil companies. It's easy to blame someone else. [1] Carl Sagan testifying before congress in 1985.
- joker_minmax 3y ago
  Even Margaret Thatcher made a speech about global warming. George HW Bush also believed in it.
- breakyerself 3y ago
  I blame government AND fossil fuel companies. Harder to blame individuals when they're just trying to survive in a system they didn't build and have little power to change and they happen to be targets of PR campaigns to make them doubt reality. Funded by fossil fuel money.
  - flakeoil 3y ago
    At the end it's all humans. Government does what the voters want so the get elected/re-elected. Unfortunately voters don't seem to want to pay more tax for fuel and electricity. They don't seem to want to pay additional taxes for their flights etc. Politicians are slowly phasing in these kind of policies, but it is not fast and drastic enough. Maybe soon with a bit more forest fires and heat waves and water scarcity the population will ask and show in the polls that they want more and more drastic measures. Once the majority of the population decides we cannot continue as we have done, then things will happen, but it goes to slow unfortunately. Just look at everyone who without blinking takes a long flight for their holiday. In one swoop they spend as much energy as they use in one year on commuting with car, cooking, heating house, warming water, household machines etc.
myrmidon 3y ago
Just saying: Al Gore was up for election 23 years ago, and climate change was basically his entire platform. The inconvenient truth is that the average voter wasn't and still isn't willing to sacrifice ANYTHING significant to combat climate change. Blaming corporations is unhelpful and reeks of hypocrisy.
- mistermann 3y ago
  Another Inconvenient Truth is that the very structure of our political systems may make it literally impossible to fix this problem. And unfortunately, our culture is not able to discuss reforming institutions, perhaps due to an excess of faith (kill religion and it has to go somewhere maybe).
  - myrmidon 3y ago
    > Another Inconvenient Truth is that the very structure of our political systems may make it literally impossible to fix this problem. Can you expand on this? Because I disagree-- in my view, climate change in the US does not get tackled "appropriately" because of lack of will in the population-- everything else is mostly just shifting blame IMO.
    - mistermann 3y ago
      The public may have the will, but if the political system or those who are within it (which is a function of the system) aren't willing to exercise the will of the people, it ain't getting done. Take Medicare For All as an example: bipartisan support among the public, never gonna happen. How people continue to fall for "Democracy" being our most sacred institution would be puzzling if one didn't realize that the world runs on stories, and those who write such stories are professionals at it, whereas those who consume them are rank amateurs....like taking candy from babies. If you ask me, if the public really cared about climate change, they'd be willing to surrender their memes....and maybe they are, but they are not able - some things require training, and such things are not taught in school, which is rather convenient.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago

flakeoil 3y ago

Well, everyone did, or at least the US congress. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NOdTEIihFU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NOdTEIihFU It's easy to blame the oil companies, but in fact, the governments around the world did not care or do anything about it. Car manufacturers did nothing to decrease size of their cars or fuel efficiency (certainly not the last 20 years). And consumers did not bother to buy smaller and more fuel efficient cars. Everyone has known about global warming for 40 years. Everyone blames oil companies and not themselves. If we completely stopped to use or at least massively reduced the usage of oil then there would be no rich oil companies. It's easy to blame someone else. [1] Carl Sagan testifying before congress in 1985.

joker_minmax 3y ago
Even Margaret Thatcher made a speech about global warming. George HW Bush also believed in it.
breakyerself 3y ago
I blame government AND fossil fuel companies. Harder to blame individuals when they're just trying to survive in a system they didn't build and have little power to change and they happen to be targets of PR campaigns to make them doubt reality. Funded by fossil fuel money.
- flakeoil 3y ago
  At the end it's all humans. Government does what the voters want so the get elected/re-elected. Unfortunately voters don't seem to want to pay more tax for fuel and electricity. They don't seem to want to pay additional taxes for their flights etc. Politicians are slowly phasing in these kind of policies, but it is not fast and drastic enough. Maybe soon with a bit more forest fires and heat waves and water scarcity the population will ask and show in the polls that they want more and more drastic measures. Once the majority of the population decides we cannot continue as we have done, then things will happen, but it goes to slow unfortunately. Just look at everyone who without blinking takes a long flight for their holiday. In one swoop they spend as much energy as they use in one year on commuting with car, cooking, heating house, warming water, household machines etc.

myrmidon 3y ago

Just saying: Al Gore was up for election 23 years ago, and climate change was basically his entire platform. The inconvenient truth is that the average voter wasn't and still isn't willing to sacrifice ANYTHING significant to combat climate change. Blaming corporations is unhelpful and reeks of hypocrisy.

mistermann 3y ago
Another Inconvenient Truth is that the very structure of our political systems may make it literally impossible to fix this problem. And unfortunately, our culture is not able to discuss reforming institutions, perhaps due to an excess of faith (kill religion and it has to go somewhere maybe).
- myrmidon 3y ago
  > Another Inconvenient Truth is that the very structure of our political systems may make it literally impossible to fix this problem. Can you expand on this? Because I disagree-- in my view, climate change in the US does not get tackled "appropriately" because of lack of will in the population-- everything else is mostly just shifting blame IMO.
  - mistermann 3y ago
    The public may have the will, but if the political system or those who are within it (which is a function of the system) aren't willing to exercise the will of the people, it ain't getting done. Take Medicare For All as an example: bipartisan support among the public, never gonna happen. How people continue to fall for "Democracy" being our most sacred institution would be puzzling if one didn't realize that the world runs on stories, and those who write such stories are professionals at it, whereas those who consume them are rank amateurs....like taking candy from babies. If you ask me, if the public really cared about climate change, they'd be willing to surrender their memes....and maybe they are, but they are not able - some things require training, and such things are not taught in school, which is rather convenient.
red-iron-pine 3y ago