3 ms·

> in Italy most residential circuit breakers have a limit of 3.3 kW Wait, really? That’s seriously underpowered, though I guess if you never need electric stov

> in Italy most residential circuit breakers have a limit of 3.3 kW Wait, really? That’s seriously underpowered, though I guess if you never need electric stoves or heating it could be somewhat usable. An ex-Soviet big-city apartment building will usually support 40A (~9kW) per apartment, and in France I had the impression that the values were similar—except for student dorms, which are supplied and wired like apartment buildings despite the density of occupants being 3x that or more, because apparently the builders could not into engineering and the uni authorities find it easier to blame the occupants (yes, I’m still a bit salty about that).

sph 3y ago
I haven't lived in Italy for 10+ years, so I don't know if anything has changed since, but that was the limit for all houses I've lived in, and from a quick Google search, it depends on your contract — the lowest is a 2 kW limit, 3.3 kW is the most common, and you can ask for an increase for an additional monthly fee. Heating and stoves are usually gas-powered, we don't do electric except for water boilers. I have always wondered if those limits and the high electricity costs are because Italy abolished nuclear energy post-Chernobyl, doesn't have a massive oil and gas operation, so most of it is imported at a premium.
N19PEDL2 3y ago
> Wait, really? We should thank whoever came up with the idea of abolishing nuclear power in Italy. What a big mistake! > if you never need electric stoves or heating it could be somewhat usable Heating and stoves in Italy are usually gas-powered. Ovens and kettles are electric but normally do not exceed 3.3 kW, however, we need to be careful not to use too many high-consumption appliances together (e.g., oven and washing machine). The introduction of increasingly restrictive energy classes for electric appliances in recent years has mitigated the problem to some extent anyway.
- pjc50 3y ago
  Italy has almost the same per-capita electricity consumption as the UK. I suspect any residential limitations are made up by industrial and transport usages. You guys really need to get on the solar panels, though.
gulikoza 3y ago
That ~9kW is probably split over 3 phases. Here you have 3x20A main breakers and then each circuit has a 10A or 16A breaker. So about 3.7kW limit for larger appliances (16A * 230V) on a single circuit, but should not exceed 20A on one phase. Stoves can be connected to 2 phases, 400V and get 7.2kW.
- mananaysiempre 3y ago
  > That ~9kW is probably split over 3 phases. In the Soviet system, usually not. There are often several downstream circuits with their own 20A or so breakers and wiring (e.g.: kitchen stove, normal kitchen sockets, bathroom sockets and lighting, other rooms’ sockets, everything non-wet lighting), but each apartment is normally supplied from a single phase. On the other hand, different apartments on the same floor (or different single-family homes on the same street, etc.) might indeed be supplied from different phases. Normal (Schuko) wall sockets are most frequently 16A (so yes, 3kW kettles max), stove sockets (and circuits) might be up to 32A, still single-phase. (That’s not to say the system is ideal, of course. E.g. GFCIs have become common only in the past fifteen years or so, and in a country-home setting I’ve actually encountered disposable screw-socket [IEC 60269] fuses.)

sph 3y ago

I haven't lived in Italy for 10+ years, so I don't know if anything has changed since, but that was the limit for all houses I've lived in, and from a quick Google search, it depends on your contract — the lowest is a 2 kW limit, 3.3 kW is the most common, and you can ask for an increase for an additional monthly fee. Heating and stoves are usually gas-powered, we don't do electric except for water boilers. I have always wondered if those limits and the high electricity costs are because Italy abolished nuclear energy post-Chernobyl, doesn't have a massive oil and gas operation, so most of it is imported at a premium.

N19PEDL2 3y ago

> Wait, really? We should thank whoever came up with the idea of abolishing nuclear power in Italy. What a big mistake! > if you never need electric stoves or heating it could be somewhat usable Heating and stoves in Italy are usually gas-powered. Ovens and kettles are electric but normally do not exceed 3.3 kW, however, we need to be careful not to use too many high-consumption appliances together (e.g., oven and washing machine). The introduction of increasingly restrictive energy classes for electric appliances in recent years has mitigated the problem to some extent anyway.

pjc50 3y ago
Italy has almost the same per-capita electricity consumption as the UK. I suspect any residential limitations are made up by industrial and transport usages. You guys really need to get on the solar panels, though.

gulikoza 3y ago

That ~9kW is probably split over 3 phases. Here you have 3x20A main breakers and then each circuit has a 10A or 16A breaker. So about 3.7kW limit for larger appliances (16A * 230V) on a single circuit, but should not exceed 20A on one phase. Stoves can be connected to 2 phases, 400V and get 7.2kW.

mananaysiempre 3y ago
> That ~9kW is probably split over 3 phases. In the Soviet system, usually not. There are often several downstream circuits with their own 20A or so breakers and wiring (e.g.: kitchen stove, normal kitchen sockets, bathroom sockets and lighting, other rooms’ sockets, everything non-wet lighting), but each apartment is normally supplied from a single phase. On the other hand, different apartments on the same floor (or different single-family homes on the same street, etc.) might indeed be supplied from different phases. Normal (Schuko) wall sockets are most frequently 16A (so yes, 3kW kettles max), stove sockets (and circuits) might be up to 32A, still single-phase. (That’s not to say the system is ideal, of course. E.g. GFCIs have become common only in the past fifteen years or so, and in a country-home setting I’ve actually encountered disposable screw-socket [IEC 60269] fuses.)