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I use PayPal everywhere that I can, because it is safer and more convenient. It is safer because I only give the merchant my PayPal account address. I don't ne

I use PayPal everywhere that I can, because it is safer and more convenient. It is safer because I only give the merchant my PayPal account address. I don't need to put any credit cards on file at every merchant. When I go to checkout, I authenticate with PayPal, and they process the payment on my behalf with very little friction. Usually, with PayPal on file, I don't even need to authenticate again. It's more convenient, because when I configure the PayPal method, I can tell PayPal which backend to use, and I can keep it or switch it on every checkout. No additional configuration for my merchant. PayPal also tracks and consolidates my recurring payments in the dashboard. I can easily see, at a glance, who is charging me next month or next year, and one button to cancel. While it's not a bank, and caveats apply, PayPal has matured into a full-featured financial services company, so payment processing is only the beginning.

blibble 3y ago
> It is safer because I only give the merchant my PayPal account address. I don't need to put any credit cards on file at every merchant in almost all countries you're not liable for transactions on a credit card made without your authorisation
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  I don't care, and I don't see what difference that makes. I make most payments with debit cards, which means the money is already drained from bank account by the time I notice. Whether or not I am liable, I've lost the money until the bank goes and gets it back for me. You seem to be saying that being the victim of fraud is OK as long as it's not my fault. I'd rather not be the victim of fraud at all. Do you see how that works? If I were mugged and beat up on the street, but I got all my cash and ID back and a new replacement phone, would you say that was as good as avoiding the mugging entirely?
  - blibble 3y ago
    > You seem to be saying that being the victim of fraud is OK as long as it's not my fault. I'd rather not be the victim of fraud at all. Do you see how that works? I said nothing of the sort credit card companies want you to use your card without you having a first thought (let alone a second one) this is one of the main selling points of their product they don't want you to have to wrap their product in another company's product to make it usable > If I were mugged and beat up on the street, but I got all my cash and ID back and a new replacement phone, would you say that was as good as avoiding the mugging entirely? a credit card has strong legal force behind it (because it's not your money) debit card+paypal has significantly weaker legal protection, at least in the UK (where paypal aren't even a bank) in case of a dispute I'd rather have the backing of the law rather than being at the mercy of paypal's customer service department
- nucleardog 3y ago
  It’s still a massive pain in the ass to deal with. Last time one of my cards was compromised it was hours in the phone getting the fraud case opened then the better part of a day going through and updating everything I could identify that was relying on that card. That handled the monthly stuff but I still occasionally find out what yearly charge has failed when the account/service gets shut down. The compromised card was cancelled immediately but it took weeks for the new card to get here, which means either I had to transfer everything to a different card which was _supposed_ to be a “never use this” backup card. So now I either go back and spend a day transferring everything back to the original card (but still with the risk that some merchant will have now leaked my backup card…) or, I don’t know, go sign up for another card. Oh, and I very nearly didn’t actually get the charges reversed because apparently that institution only accepts fraud disputes up to something like “date statement was issued + 14 days”. “Yeah I don’t try and avoid car accidents, insurance will cover it!” It’s nice that that’s there as a fallback, but it’s certainly something I’ll try and avoid where I can. Using a more trustworthy intermediary when I’m ordering from random tiny merchants is a really easy and low impact way to reduce my risk and hassle here.
  - blibble 3y ago
    > Using a more trustworthy intermediary when I’m ordering from random tiny merchants is a really easy and low impact way to reduce my risk and hassle here. but we're talking about paypal here
    - toast0 3y ago
      PayPal horror stories abound, but they're usually specific to receiving payments. I think I've read a few about buyer side disputes and PayPal doing clawbacks for chargebacks from other payment mechanisms, but those seem to be much rarer. Anyway, I don't recall PayPal ever having data security issues where payment information was leaked in bulk, as has happened with some retailers.
      - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
        Yeah, I can count on one hand the number of times I've received payments there, and it's always from individuals whom I know and trust, obviously, and we had a prior agreement to exchange the money. I also had a decent chargeback experience, long long ago; I think it was about 17 years ago. It was just an independent band selling tee shirts, and I ordered one, and then they said whoops, we've got none in your size, sorry. But no refund from them, so I pursued it via PayPal, and the situation was easily resolved. Obviously, there was no repeat business for that vendor.

blibble 3y ago

> It is safer because I only give the merchant my PayPal account address. I don't need to put any credit cards on file at every merchant in almost all countries you're not liable for transactions on a credit card made without your authorisation

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
I don't care, and I don't see what difference that makes. I make most payments with debit cards, which means the money is already drained from bank account by the time I notice. Whether or not I am liable, I've lost the money until the bank goes and gets it back for me. You seem to be saying that being the victim of fraud is OK as long as it's not my fault. I'd rather not be the victim of fraud at all. Do you see how that works? If I were mugged and beat up on the street, but I got all my cash and ID back and a new replacement phone, would you say that was as good as avoiding the mugging entirely?
- blibble 3y ago
  > You seem to be saying that being the victim of fraud is OK as long as it's not my fault. I'd rather not be the victim of fraud at all. Do you see how that works? I said nothing of the sort credit card companies want you to use your card without you having a first thought (let alone a second one) this is one of the main selling points of their product they don't want you to have to wrap their product in another company's product to make it usable > If I were mugged and beat up on the street, but I got all my cash and ID back and a new replacement phone, would you say that was as good as avoiding the mugging entirely? a credit card has strong legal force behind it (because it's not your money) debit card+paypal has significantly weaker legal protection, at least in the UK (where paypal aren't even a bank) in case of a dispute I'd rather have the backing of the law rather than being at the mercy of paypal's customer service department
nucleardog 3y ago
It’s still a massive pain in the ass to deal with. Last time one of my cards was compromised it was hours in the phone getting the fraud case opened then the better part of a day going through and updating everything I could identify that was relying on that card. That handled the monthly stuff but I still occasionally find out what yearly charge has failed when the account/service gets shut down. The compromised card was cancelled immediately but it took weeks for the new card to get here, which means either I had to transfer everything to a different card which was _supposed_ to be a “never use this” backup card. So now I either go back and spend a day transferring everything back to the original card (but still with the risk that some merchant will have now leaked my backup card…) or, I don’t know, go sign up for another card. Oh, and I very nearly didn’t actually get the charges reversed because apparently that institution only accepts fraud disputes up to something like “date statement was issued + 14 days”. “Yeah I don’t try and avoid car accidents, insurance will cover it!” It’s nice that that’s there as a fallback, but it’s certainly something I’ll try and avoid where I can. Using a more trustworthy intermediary when I’m ordering from random tiny merchants is a really easy and low impact way to reduce my risk and hassle here.
- blibble 3y ago
  > Using a more trustworthy intermediary when I’m ordering from random tiny merchants is a really easy and low impact way to reduce my risk and hassle here. but we're talking about paypal here
  - toast0 3y ago
    PayPal horror stories abound, but they're usually specific to receiving payments. I think I've read a few about buyer side disputes and PayPal doing clawbacks for chargebacks from other payment mechanisms, but those seem to be much rarer. Anyway, I don't recall PayPal ever having data security issues where payment information was leaked in bulk, as has happened with some retailers.
    - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
      Yeah, I can count on one hand the number of times I've received payments there, and it's always from individuals whom I know and trust, obviously, and we had a prior agreement to exchange the money. I also had a decent chargeback experience, long long ago; I think it was about 17 years ago. It was just an independent band selling tee shirts, and I ordered one, and then they said whoops, we've got none in your size, sorry. But no refund from them, so I pursued it via PayPal, and the situation was easily resolved. Obviously, there was no repeat business for that vendor.