4 ms·

There was a show here in Australia which looked at paper packaging of take out food having high amounts of PFAS. If paper is treated to not just disintegrate/g

There was a show here in Australia which looked at paper packaging of take out food having high amounts of PFAS. If paper is treated to not just disintegrate/get soaked immediately - its going to involve some nasty shit.

CorrectHorseBat 3y ago
Wax is also used, wouldn't that be enough for most applications?
- bertil 3y ago
  Wax is great, but it isn’t as likely to stick to smooth surfaces for long periods, or if things get hot or abrasive. It’s good on cloth, covering a dish you put in the fridge — but not sure how it would work with burger wrappers or cups of hot coffee, that are where most PFAS are used. I’d love to check if, in a straw, it would be perceptible. Metal straws remain the simplest solution.
  - whelp_24 3y ago
    Can't metal straws literally impale you?
    - bertil 3y ago
      I usually use them to drink, but yeah… So can forks, knives, and if you’ve seen Kateshi Kitano’s _Fireworks (1997) - Hana-bi_, chopsticks.
    - dhfjfhfh 3y ago
      [dead]
- specialist 3y ago
  Or maybe parchment paper, which uses silicon instead of paraffin. I use some silicon kitchen stuff. It's terrific. I'm dreading some future revelation that it's even worse than PFAS (eg Teflon).
bertil 3y ago
Yeah, the focus on straws is strange to me as that’s only a tiny part of the problem: every fast food wrapper, burger box, “disposable” soda or coffee cup has PFAS—maybe not the plastic lids, but those are clearly not things you want to dispose of either. The only exceptions are the old-school pizza boxes: that’s untreated cardboard, and they don’t handle the steam and grease for much longer than the delivery. I was very confused when the law banned plastic straws, and they interviewed people on the street holding ten times more PFAS in their coffee cups, arguing they did their part… The “solution” is non-disposable carriers. France is forcing McDonald’s and other fast food to change (but it’s mainly McD and small local actors there). I’m not sure why California and others haven’t pushed for those. There are solutions (disclaimer: I invested in a couple) using consignment, QR-code… It’s not super high-end tech, but it works. Start by mandating that coffee makers accept customers’ cups and the 20-penny discount that Starbucks does if you bring your own.
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  The focus on straws comes from two angles: * the original environmental motivation was that they are strong, non-bio-degradable structures that pose threats to wildlife, similar to how the old 'can rings' got phased out. * anything that involves government regulation, especially government regulation of stuff that involves the fossil petrochemical industry has an immensely well funded push back against it. It's a slippery slope, once you ban straws the next thing you know you might actually deal with the main cause of climate change and we wouldn't want that now would we. > Their prohibition would, it was thought, reduce plastic waste getting into the environment. But to the degree that these bans led people to substitute paper for plastic, all they've done is swap out some minimal amount of plastic consumption for increased PFAS pollution. Hmm "minimal amount of plastic consumption" vs "increased PFAS pollution"? Why is one pollution and one consumption? Why is one "a minimal amount" and the other an "increase"? It's because this is effectively a PR outlet for fossil fuel corporations.
  - PM_me_your_math 3y ago
    >>>once you ban straws the next thing you know you might actually deal with the main cause of climate change and we wouldn't want that now would we. How are you going to deal with solar radiation, earth's position and orientation, the jet stream, and water vapor?

CorrectHorseBat 3y ago

Wax is also used, wouldn't that be enough for most applications?

bertil 3y ago
Wax is great, but it isn’t as likely to stick to smooth surfaces for long periods, or if things get hot or abrasive. It’s good on cloth, covering a dish you put in the fridge — but not sure how it would work with burger wrappers or cups of hot coffee, that are where most PFAS are used. I’d love to check if, in a straw, it would be perceptible. Metal straws remain the simplest solution.
- whelp_24 3y ago
  Can't metal straws literally impale you?
  - bertil 3y ago
    I usually use them to drink, but yeah… So can forks, knives, and if you’ve seen Kateshi Kitano’s _Fireworks (1997) - Hana-bi_, chopsticks.
  - dhfjfhfh 3y ago
    [dead]
specialist 3y ago
Or maybe parchment paper, which uses silicon instead of paraffin. I use some silicon kitchen stuff. It's terrific. I'm dreading some future revelation that it's even worse than PFAS (eg Teflon).

bertil 3y ago

Yeah, the focus on straws is strange to me as that’s only a tiny part of the problem: every fast food wrapper, burger box, “disposable” soda or coffee cup has PFAS—maybe not the plastic lids, but those are clearly not things you want to dispose of either. The only exceptions are the old-school pizza boxes: that’s untreated cardboard, and they don’t handle the steam and grease for much longer than the delivery. I was very confused when the law banned plastic straws, and they interviewed people on the street holding ten times more PFAS in their coffee cups, arguing they did their part… The “solution” is non-disposable carriers. France is forcing McDonald’s and other fast food to change (but it’s mainly McD and small local actors there). I’m not sure why California and others haven’t pushed for those. There are solutions (disclaimer: I invested in a couple) using consignment, QR-code… It’s not super high-end tech, but it works. Start by mandating that coffee makers accept customers’ cups and the 20-penny discount that Starbucks does if you bring your own.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago
The focus on straws comes from two angles: * the original environmental motivation was that they are strong, non-bio-degradable structures that pose threats to wildlife, similar to how the old 'can rings' got phased out. * anything that involves government regulation, especially government regulation of stuff that involves the fossil petrochemical industry has an immensely well funded push back against it. It's a slippery slope, once you ban straws the next thing you know you might actually deal with the main cause of climate change and we wouldn't want that now would we. > Their prohibition would, it was thought, reduce plastic waste getting into the environment. But to the degree that these bans led people to substitute paper for plastic, all they've done is swap out some minimal amount of plastic consumption for increased PFAS pollution. Hmm "minimal amount of plastic consumption" vs "increased PFAS pollution"? Why is one pollution and one consumption? Why is one "a minimal amount" and the other an "increase"? It's because this is effectively a PR outlet for fossil fuel corporations.
- PM_me_your_math 3y ago
  >>>once you ban straws the next thing you know you might actually deal with the main cause of climate change and we wouldn't want that now would we. How are you going to deal with solar radiation, earth's position and orientation, the jet stream, and water vapor?