5 ms·

We Glorify Overwork and Refuse to Rest

50 points by johntfella 3y ago

lafar6503 3y ago
But what to do if you really love what you do and can achieve really good results in your work, better than anyone else? It's a source of pride and recognition, no wonder it becomes part of your identity. Now imagine working out instead -everyone can do that, you won't achieve anything interesting this way. Same with bike riding or hobby woodworking - want some results you have to work long hours for that. No point in feeling guilty because you love your job, just don't neglect other responsibilities in life.
- doytch 3y ago
  Yeah, I identify with that. It makes it harder that’s for sure. The article linked to one of the author’s other articles which talked about how even if you love it, you start to be fueled by different energy. > After working at high intensity for more than 90 minutes, we begin to draw on these emergency reserves to keep us going. In the process, we move from parasympathetic to a sympathetic arousal — a physiological state more commonly known as “fight or flight.” > One consequence of relying on stress hormones for energy is that the prefrontal cortex begins to shut down. We become more reactive and less capable of thinking clearly and reflectively, or seeing the big picture. I recognize that. Ive also noticed those stress hormones coming more often outside of work and affecting the rest of my life.
- demondemidi 3y ago
  What part of the article was trying to make you feel guilty?
- Justsignedup 3y ago
  Add in children and you have yourself a time sink. And the big thing is children are wonderful as long as you can live to enjoy them rather than live to handle them as an obligation.
- dogleash 3y ago
  You're rationalizing. You don't think anyone gets into the position in the article without rationalizing do you? A huge chunk of the article was spent on rationalization.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  I think that what you do is work in the way that is best for you and brings you the most happiness and fulfillment. The article isn't saying that you shouldn't, or can't, work as you prefer. It's pointing out that work culture, particularly in the US, strongly pressures people to give up as much as possible for the workplace, and that's not a good thing.
- vonwoodson 3y ago
  You really think that you can do anything "better than anyone else"? Also, what is your basis of comparison for "you won't achieve anything interesting"? You have to have a very small world view to believe either of these; in the large scale we don't know what's important or what others are capable of. Twiddling your thumbs may be the most important task in the universe, we simply do not know.
- johnchristopher 3y ago
  Well, see you in a few years in the comment section of another article about burn out :) ? Kidding aside, good for you if it works and keep working.
helen___keller 3y ago
I prefer being busy while at work, and I prefer working fewer hours but there’s not really an avenue to make that happen except for ambiguous policies like “unlimited vacation” that just make me perpetually anxious.
- bluefishinit 3y ago
  Work from home prevents the need to "look busy" and instead allows you to do your tasks and take the rest of your time back for yourself. In a properly managed remote workplace, managers will not focus on how you spend your days and will reward your for the results you produce (which are usually higher quality since you're not stressed from commute, office noise/smells/gossip, and having to look busy when you're not).
  - acuozzo 3y ago
    > In a properly managed remote workplace, managers will not focus on how you spend your days and will reward your for the results you produce This kind of pure meritocracy is dystopic without functional social safety nets in place. Ralph's kid dies and he falls behind for a few months, so he gets the axe. Rhonda has a baby, goes on FMLA, and gets the boot once legal decides she no longer has grounds to file suit. So on and so forth.
    - bluefishinit 3y ago
      Oh I should have also stated that successful remote management is built entirely of trust and humane treatment of the remote workers. The value someone produces may also be pretty intangible (i.e. they make the team work better together). I can see how you could extrapolate those scenarios from my comment, but giving employees affordances to put their life first should be table stakes for all employees, remote or otherwise. No one should be fired or punished for having to deal with personal issues.
  - helen___keller 3y ago
    I don’t really agree. I prefer WFH most days but it’s no panacea: WFH has expectations of availability during working hours and expectations of 40 hours ish of time commitment. If I finish work in 2 hours and go do personal stuff for the rest of the day I don’t feel relaxed, I feel anxious like I’m in a gray zone in the employment contract and I’m going to be sniffed out and given more work to do.
screye 3y ago
I'll do one better. I am strongly opposed to 2023 term : 'career'. It's a common excuse : "I cannot do <insert fun thing>, or have to do <insert undesirable thing> for my career." The word is now untethered from all responsibilities and benefits that came from being a career professional, and instead just signifies the constant urge to be working in pursuit of some arbitrary career. Your career used to be a lifetime job. Your coworkers were your neighbors. Your boss was your mentor. Your company men send their children to the same school and you retired with a hefty pension. Your wife's friends were your coworkers' wives. Work was real work. You made physical products or you worked at your own little shop. It's all gone now. Now, 'Career' throws you around the world, destroying your communities. Dual-income households have to choose between career and children. Pensions are dead (For good imo). Most people work on things without clear positive real-life impacts and you own none of it. Your boss is incentivized to abuse you in a capitalistic rat race until you burn out, and your kids get thrown in the same blender at school at an even earlier age. So I ask, what even is a career ?
- vonwoodson 3y ago
  Jello Biafra says it's a [Life Sentence](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni4d7TD-hNo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni4d7TD-hNo)
rawgabbit 3y ago
Overwork is signaling. There is nothing productive about it. I have seen coworkers who literally spends their entire lives in the office; the amount of actual output they create is negligible. They loudly claim how hard they work and put down people who go home at five. It is nothing more than a cult of stupidity. From the article: Over time, it leads to diminishing productivity, higher rates of burnout, and even to increased likelihood of mortality. A 2021 World Health Organization study found that working 55 or more hours per week — compared to 35-40 hours — is associated with a 35% higher risk of a stroke and a 17% higher risk of dying from heart disease. What sets workaholism apart from other forms of addiction — especially in a capitalist economy that reveres money above all else — is that it’s not only socially acceptable, but also materially and socially rewarded.

50 points by johntfella 3y ago

But what to do if you really love what you do and can achieve really good results in your work, better than anyone else? It's a source of pride and recognition, no wonder it becomes part of your identity. Now imagine working out instead -everyone can do that, you won't achieve anything interesting this way. Same with bike riding or hobby woodworking - want some results you have to work long hours for that. No point in feeling guilty because you love your job, just don't neglect other responsibilities in life.

doytch 3y ago
Yeah, I identify with that. It makes it harder that’s for sure. The article linked to one of the author’s other articles which talked about how even if you love it, you start to be fueled by different energy. > After working at high intensity for more than 90 minutes, we begin to draw on these emergency reserves to keep us going. In the process, we move from parasympathetic to a sympathetic arousal — a physiological state more commonly known as “fight or flight.” > One consequence of relying on stress hormones for energy is that the prefrontal cortex begins to shut down. We become more reactive and less capable of thinking clearly and reflectively, or seeing the big picture. I recognize that. Ive also noticed those stress hormones coming more often outside of work and affecting the rest of my life.
demondemidi 3y ago
What part of the article was trying to make you feel guilty?
Justsignedup 3y ago
Add in children and you have yourself a time sink. And the big thing is children are wonderful as long as you can live to enjoy them rather than live to handle them as an obligation.
dogleash 3y ago
You're rationalizing. You don't think anyone gets into the position in the article without rationalizing do you? A huge chunk of the article was spent on rationalization.
JohnFen 3y ago
I think that what you do is work in the way that is best for you and brings you the most happiness and fulfillment. The article isn't saying that you shouldn't, or can't, work as you prefer. It's pointing out that work culture, particularly in the US, strongly pressures people to give up as much as possible for the workplace, and that's not a good thing.
vonwoodson 3y ago
You really think that you can do anything "better than anyone else"? Also, what is your basis of comparison for "you won't achieve anything interesting"? You have to have a very small world view to believe either of these; in the large scale we don't know what's important or what others are capable of. Twiddling your thumbs may be the most important task in the universe, we simply do not know.
johnchristopher 3y ago
Well, see you in a few years in the comment section of another article about burn out :) ? Kidding aside, good for you if it works and keep working.

helen___keller 3y ago

I prefer being busy while at work, and I prefer working fewer hours but there’s not really an avenue to make that happen except for ambiguous policies like “unlimited vacation” that just make me perpetually anxious.

bluefishinit 3y ago
Work from home prevents the need to "look busy" and instead allows you to do your tasks and take the rest of your time back for yourself. In a properly managed remote workplace, managers will not focus on how you spend your days and will reward your for the results you produce (which are usually higher quality since you're not stressed from commute, office noise/smells/gossip, and having to look busy when you're not).
- acuozzo 3y ago
  > In a properly managed remote workplace, managers will not focus on how you spend your days and will reward your for the results you produce This kind of pure meritocracy is dystopic without functional social safety nets in place. Ralph's kid dies and he falls behind for a few months, so he gets the axe. Rhonda has a baby, goes on FMLA, and gets the boot once legal decides she no longer has grounds to file suit. So on and so forth.
  - bluefishinit 3y ago
    Oh I should have also stated that successful remote management is built entirely of trust and humane treatment of the remote workers. The value someone produces may also be pretty intangible (i.e. they make the team work better together). I can see how you could extrapolate those scenarios from my comment, but giving employees affordances to put their life first should be table stakes for all employees, remote or otherwise. No one should be fired or punished for having to deal with personal issues.
- helen___keller 3y ago
  I don’t really agree. I prefer WFH most days but it’s no panacea: WFH has expectations of availability during working hours and expectations of 40 hours ish of time commitment. If I finish work in 2 hours and go do personal stuff for the rest of the day I don’t feel relaxed, I feel anxious like I’m in a gray zone in the employment contract and I’m going to be sniffed out and given more work to do.

screye 3y ago

I'll do one better. I am strongly opposed to 2023 term : 'career'. It's a common excuse : "I cannot do <insert fun thing>, or have to do <insert undesirable thing> for my career." The word is now untethered from all responsibilities and benefits that came from being a career professional, and instead just signifies the constant urge to be working in pursuit of some arbitrary career. Your career used to be a lifetime job. Your coworkers were your neighbors. Your boss was your mentor. Your company men send their children to the same school and you retired with a hefty pension. Your wife's friends were your coworkers' wives. Work was real work. You made physical products or you worked at your own little shop. It's all gone now. Now, 'Career' throws you around the world, destroying your communities. Dual-income households have to choose between career and children. Pensions are dead (For good imo). Most people work on things without clear positive real-life impacts and you own none of it. Your boss is incentivized to abuse you in a capitalistic rat race until you burn out, and your kids get thrown in the same blender at school at an even earlier age. So I ask, what even is a career ?

vonwoodson 3y ago
Jello Biafra says it's a [Life Sentence](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni4d7TD-hNo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni4d7TD-hNo)

rawgabbit 3y ago

Overwork is signaling. There is nothing productive about it. I have seen coworkers who literally spends their entire lives in the office; the amount of actual output they create is negligible. They loudly claim how hard they work and put down people who go home at five. It is nothing more than a cult of stupidity. From the article: Over time, it leads to diminishing productivity, higher rates of burnout, and even to increased likelihood of mortality. A 2021 World Health Organization study found that working 55 or more hours per week — compared to 35-40 hours — is associated with a 35% higher risk of a stroke and a 17% higher risk of dying from heart disease. What sets workaholism apart from other forms of addiction — especially in a capitalist economy that reveres money above all else — is that it’s not only socially acceptable, but also materially and socially rewarded.