7 ms·

Source: Google Pixel 8 will get more Android OS updates

26 points by falcon_ 3y ago

Iulioh 3y ago
I don't like this article as they don't differentiate security updates and features updates :/
- jemmyw 3y ago
  > will get two more years (24 monthly security patches) that should let you comfortably keep using your phone albeit without major operating system updates during those last two years I think that's pretty clearly defined in the article.
grobbyy 3y ago
The article mistakes that iPhone has any support guarantee. It doesn't. The latest iPhone might stop receiving security updated a week after it ships. Or a century. In practice, Apple has shipped updates longer than competitors, but there is no guarantee. With Android vendors, there's a guaranteed support life. It's a question of the degree you trust that part performance predicts future performance versus written policies.
- baq 3y ago
  My iPad 5 which at this point is older than the hills got an OS update last week or so. It’s actually amazing. I switched from android to iOS basically for this reason and am not disappointed. Yet.
  - jauntywundrkind 3y ago
    Apple doesn't really have a choice except to offer long support. Android should offer long support windows, & the hope is there we will someday see this growing significantly (Project Treble & others). But, Android devices let you install your own OS (if you can get an unlock, caveat #1). The device might not be supported by the manufacturer, but it's still possible to support the device. Which by virtue of being Linux needs to have sources available. Caveat #2, it's often a terrible vendorized kernel that will be incredibly difficult to use (but again Project Treble is trying to tilt the needle here). There's huge caveats, but at the same time, there's also a lot of quite old devices out there that can run quite modern OSes, without the manufacturers help. Which is something no iPhone iPad or iTv can do, and there's seemingly nothing on the horizon with promise to unbind these devices from Apple.
- kanbara 3y ago
  apple _de facto_ ships software + security updates for many many years, and does so longer than google. who cares if android has _de jure_ lifetimes, as they are shorter. apple won’t suddenly stop giving any devices updates after 1yr, so it doesnt really matter
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    Apple is a weird company. They will provide software updates for their phones for longer than for their computers. Computers that have lost support still get some security updates (not all). They won't go full Wish.com phone on you, but with the prices of modern smartphones (€556 for the cheapest model, doesn't even come with a charger) I think the question "can I use this for five years or for eight years" is fair to ask.
    - theonlybutlet 3y ago
      The difference being the computers are still usable, the phones, being so locked down, basically become bricks without updates.
      - Almondsetat 3y ago
        How come? When you stop receiving macOS updates Safari becomes a dead man walking, just like with phones. I seriously doubt anyone uses their Mac without browsing the internet
        nicoburns 3y ago
        You can use alternate browsers. You can also install linux on old macs. Or even windows on x86 macs.
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    It's still more complicated than that. Apple ships OS updates for longer, but not all features make it to the older devices, even when they're not bound to specific hardware. Also devices that don't get OS updates might as well be dead. Third party software support becomes non existent, Safari gets locked in time, the usability significantly decays. In comparison Google decoupled their framework updates from OS updates a while ago now, and there will be enough third party options to keep the device useful long after the official support has ended. The Pixel 4a's support has ended, but it's still a useable device, where the iPhone 6S is already losing some apps that stopped supporting iOS15 completely. At the end of the day, I don't think both approaches make that much of a difference.
- kaba0 3y ago
  That difference doesn’t matter at all in the real world.
  - fsflover 3y ago
    Until it does.
    - viknesh 3y ago
      "when pigs fly"... Edit: I've owned almost 10 Google android devices: nexus 5, 6, 5x, pixel 1, 2, 3, 6 pro, and a couple tablets Of those, maybe 2 of them were stable after 2 years. Who cares if Google "promises OS updates" for 5 years if the updates are so unstable that the phone is unusable. Meanwhile, it's not uncommon for people to be using 3+ year old iphones with no complaints. My iphone 11 (~4 years old) feels much snappier than my pixel 6 pro (~2 years old).
- zigzag312 3y ago
  There is also no quality guarantee for guaranteed Android updates. Many Android devices I have owned introduced new bugs with the updates that where then never fixed for these devices.
- stratom 3y ago
  Unfortunately such a guarantee might me worth less than a vendor just keeping to push updates. I personally have been a bit disappointed how HMD Global(Nokia phones) handled their update promise.
- michaelt 3y ago
  > It's a question of the degree you trust that part performance predicts future performance versus written policies. Personally, I trust past performance much, much more than written policies. After all, the written policy doesn't promise the updates won't slow down the phone, or fill up its storage, or drain the battery faster, or introduce new ads and tracking - so in practice you're trusting past performance anyway. And if I've got a written guarantee of updates and the company doesn't deliver, am I going to sue them? That sounds like a lot of hassle.
- WawaFin 3y ago
  The only OEM that does officially guarantees updates support timeframes is Google Samsung claim a support timeframe but they never released a page like Google's one (https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en) as far as I know And even if we use Samsung claims as some sort of guarantee, we also need to take into account that while Google use the "at least" terminology, Samsung uses "at most" or "up to". Which basically means that they commit to nothing since a "up to 4 years of updates" (with one major update per year) could both means 1 or 0 updates or 4 updates
mattlondon 3y ago
Does anyone keep a phone for close to 8 years? Don't get me wrong this is a good thing but in my experience at about 3 years you are looking at roughly 1000 charging cycles and so the battery will barely last 12 hours. Add into that knocks and bumps and scratches and they're basically junk by then. Even if you could replace the battery, the physical wear and tear is quite substantial I find (they're tools after all) I suppose if you have been ultra cautious and basically leave your phone at home on the charger 90% of the time and keep it wrapped up in some huge case then it is conceivable that you might approach 8 years... But then if you are like this barely even use the phone, why not just get a feature phone?
- thefz 3y ago
  > at about 3 years you are looking at roughly 1000 charging cycles and so the battery will barely last 12 hours Then replace the battery and enjoy your phone. I still have 5+yo phones I use to listen to music at the gym or as a GPS with offline maps when cycling, and having a secure and up to date OS is nice.
- ilikehurdles 3y ago
  I take my 2019 iPhone XS to the Apple Store where they replace the battery for like $60something bucks. Never really gotten much wear and tear from these phones outside of cracked screens from hard drops (which I wouldn't classify as wear and tear). I completely lack any desire for new phone hardware so the new battery makes financial sense.
- gameoverhumans 3y ago
  > at about 3 years you are looking at roughly 1000 charging cycles and so the battery will barely last 12 hours. Yes, this is why user-replaceable batteries (which mobile phones had for many years) are important. So much so that the EU has passed legislation to force the industry to do the right thing. [1] > and keep it wrapped up in some huge case Depends on your phone, but I believe there's plenty of reasonable options to protect your pocket computing device that aren't "some huge case". Further, you should always invest in a decent screen protector. Scratches and damage to the screen impacts the usability of a slate form factor smartphone (since other than one or two hardware buttons, the entirety of your interaction with the device takes place through the screen). > Add into that knocks and bumps and scratches and they're basically junk by then. Why does some scuffing on the edges of the bezels turn a device into "junk", for you? [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/24/23771064/european-union-battery-regulation-ecodesign-user-replacable-batteries https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/24/23771064/european-union-b...
roesel 3y ago
This is a laudable effort, but maybe the Pixel team should first focus on feature updates not completely messing up their phones for months at a time? Owning a Pixel 4a has been great until the first major Android update, which made the "Adaptive battery" feature discharge the phone within two hours in standby. The fix didn't come for more then a year (!). A very similar thing then repeated with the next major update. One would think buying a phone from the main developer of the OS would come with more stability, reliability, and attention to detail, considering the argument of "oh, but it has to support a hundreds of thousands of phone models, not just 3 a year like Apple" is moot. What good does 8 years of support do if the phone is borked after 3?
- rerx 3y ago
  For what it's worth, I personally can't remember any issues with my Pixel 6 after any update so far.
  - roesel 3y ago
    I realize my experiences are anecdotal to the two Pixel 4a phones in my family, but the numerous reddit threads about the Adaptive Battery issue (4a) and the later unexplained stand-by battery drain (4a & 7) seem to show that I have at least not been the only one experiencing this.
    - londons_explore 3y ago
      Android has been having battery drain issues since forever. All it takes is some random app, library, system service or driver to get into an infinite loop waiting for something that will never happen, and suddenly battery life is cut down from multiple days to just a few hours.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    Occasionally I flash a pixel device back to an old firmware. Every time, I am surprised how speedy and lag-free it feels. I would really like a 'security updates only, no other updates' phone, because I value speed over some UI redesign or whatever is in the next android update.
jraedisch 3y ago
Switched to iPhone since I did not want to throw away another perfectly fine phone because of lacking security updates. Had a Nokia 8 before and would still have it if Nokia kept supporting it. Some things (e.g. Keyboard, VPN integration) were superior to my new iPhone.
- GuB-42 3y ago
  It looks like there is an unofficial LineageOS build for the Nokia 8. Most people don't bother, but on popular Android phones, community support can extend the life of the phone way beyond what the manufacturer provides.
  - jraedisch 3y ago
    What’s your approach on evaluating an unofficial build?
kwanbix 3y ago
While I can clearly see how good iPhones are, I love my Android phones. The choice of choosing between different manufacturers is great for me. For example, I have been riding an Oppo Find X3 Pro, and I love it. The main problem that I see, is that while Apple concentrates in 4 phones per year (iPhone, iPhone Plus, iPhone Pro, and iPhone Pro Max), which all have more or less the same internals. Most Android manufacturers release 2030 phones per year, which different internals. The burden of supporting so many phones, is what kills any chance of long term support on Android IMHO. Imagine, in 10 years, Apple has to support 40 phones. In the same 10 years, Samsung or Xiaomi have to support 300 phones. The crazy thing is that most times, the difference between phones is so small, that I don't get what they do it.
- knallfrosch 3y ago
  That's a self-made problem, aka business decision. Samsung could release only 2 phones per year if they wanted to.
  - kwanbix 3y ago
    Correct. I am just elaborating on one problem that they need to fix. I imagine they can do 5~9 phones per year and the situation should improve drastically.
nixass 3y ago
Now if Google would go away from Exynos for Tensor CPU then it would be even better for consumers
- fifteen1506 3y ago
  Another article, also probably here in HN, mentioned they plan to transition to TSMC in 2026 or something.
knallfrosch 3y ago
To be honest, most OS feature updates are completely useless. Case in point: - Android 13 comes with a new media player that puts album artwork on full display and features a dancing playback bar. - You're in control of which apps can send you notifications—helping you limit distractions. [Is that a new feature??] - Send and receive messages even when your phone’s out of reach by streaming your messaging apps directly to your Chromebook. https://www.android.com/android-13/ https://www.android.com/android-13/ Is that some sort of joke? Just patch the security holes so I can safely use my banking app and that's it. I don't need a redesigned music player. And then of course, there's the problem of new releases hogging resources and introducing buggy behaviour. At this point, I'd prefer a promise of "never new features and 8 years of security."
- nicoburns 3y ago
  The main reason for wanting OS upgrades as a consumer is that app developer tend to only support the last N versions. So at some point you’ll find that you can no longer use the apps you want to use if you’re stuck on an older version.
  - Lammy 3y ago
    Hence why Google are forcing an API-level bump on app developers https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37280972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37280972
ga2mer 3y ago
Google is quite sneaky with updates: I own a Pixel 4a, which has guaranteed major updates ending in August (in a few days), but it's like Android 14 is purposely delayed and will come out most likely in September and thus skipping the 4a
pentagrama 3y ago
This article will be giving a better picture by simply adding a table with companies/models, years of support, os upgrades, security patches. Will summarize vastly what is saying with several paragraphs in a simple digestible table. Data journalism skills should be embedded in every news team.

26 points by falcon_ 3y ago

Iulioh 3y ago

I don't like this article as they don't differentiate security updates and features updates :/

jemmyw 3y ago
> will get two more years (24 monthly security patches) that should let you comfortably keep using your phone albeit without major operating system updates during those last two years I think that's pretty clearly defined in the article.

grobbyy 3y ago

The article mistakes that iPhone has any support guarantee. It doesn't. The latest iPhone might stop receiving security updated a week after it ships. Or a century. In practice, Apple has shipped updates longer than competitors, but there is no guarantee. With Android vendors, there's a guaranteed support life. It's a question of the degree you trust that part performance predicts future performance versus written policies.

baq 3y ago
My iPad 5 which at this point is older than the hills got an OS update last week or so. It’s actually amazing. I switched from android to iOS basically for this reason and am not disappointed. Yet.
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  Apple doesn't really have a choice except to offer long support. Android should offer long support windows, & the hope is there we will someday see this growing significantly (Project Treble & others). But, Android devices let you install your own OS (if you can get an unlock, caveat #1). The device might not be supported by the manufacturer, but it's still possible to support the device. Which by virtue of being Linux needs to have sources available. Caveat #2, it's often a terrible vendorized kernel that will be incredibly difficult to use (but again Project Treble is trying to tilt the needle here). There's huge caveats, but at the same time, there's also a lot of quite old devices out there that can run quite modern OSes, without the manufacturers help. Which is something no iPhone iPad or iTv can do, and there's seemingly nothing on the horizon with promise to unbind these devices from Apple.
kanbara 3y ago
apple _de facto_ ships software + security updates for many many years, and does so longer than google. who cares if android has _de jure_ lifetimes, as they are shorter. apple won’t suddenly stop giving any devices updates after 1yr, so it doesnt really matter
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  Apple is a weird company. They will provide software updates for their phones for longer than for their computers. Computers that have lost support still get some security updates (not all). They won't go full Wish.com phone on you, but with the prices of modern smartphones (€556 for the cheapest model, doesn't even come with a charger) I think the question "can I use this for five years or for eight years" is fair to ask.
  - theonlybutlet 3y ago
    The difference being the computers are still usable, the phones, being so locked down, basically become bricks without updates.
    - Almondsetat 3y ago
      How come? When you stop receiving macOS updates Safari becomes a dead man walking, just like with phones. I seriously doubt anyone uses their Mac without browsing the internet
      - nicoburns 3y ago
        You can use alternate browsers. You can also install linux on old macs. Or even windows on x86 macs.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  It's still more complicated than that. Apple ships OS updates for longer, but not all features make it to the older devices, even when they're not bound to specific hardware. Also devices that don't get OS updates might as well be dead. Third party software support becomes non existent, Safari gets locked in time, the usability significantly decays. In comparison Google decoupled their framework updates from OS updates a while ago now, and there will be enough third party options to keep the device useful long after the official support has ended. The Pixel 4a's support has ended, but it's still a useable device, where the iPhone 6S is already losing some apps that stopped supporting iOS15 completely. At the end of the day, I don't think both approaches make that much of a difference.
kaba0 3y ago
That difference doesn’t matter at all in the real world.
- fsflover 3y ago
  Until it does.
  - viknesh 3y ago
    "when pigs fly"... Edit: I've owned almost 10 Google android devices: nexus 5, 6, 5x, pixel 1, 2, 3, 6 pro, and a couple tablets Of those, maybe 2 of them were stable after 2 years. Who cares if Google "promises OS updates" for 5 years if the updates are so unstable that the phone is unusable. Meanwhile, it's not uncommon for people to be using 3+ year old iphones with no complaints. My iphone 11 (~4 years old) feels much snappier than my pixel 6 pro (~2 years old).
zigzag312 3y ago
There is also no quality guarantee for guaranteed Android updates. Many Android devices I have owned introduced new bugs with the updates that where then never fixed for these devices.
stratom 3y ago
Unfortunately such a guarantee might me worth less than a vendor just keeping to push updates. I personally have been a bit disappointed how HMD Global(Nokia phones) handled their update promise.
michaelt 3y ago
> It's a question of the degree you trust that part performance predicts future performance versus written policies. Personally, I trust past performance much, much more than written policies. After all, the written policy doesn't promise the updates won't slow down the phone, or fill up its storage, or drain the battery faster, or introduce new ads and tracking - so in practice you're trusting past performance anyway. And if I've got a written guarantee of updates and the company doesn't deliver, am I going to sue them? That sounds like a lot of hassle.
WawaFin 3y ago
The only OEM that does officially guarantees updates support timeframes is Google Samsung claim a support timeframe but they never released a page like Google's one (https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en) as far as I know And even if we use Samsung claims as some sort of guarantee, we also need to take into account that while Google use the "at least" terminology, Samsung uses "at most" or "up to". Which basically means that they commit to nothing since a "up to 4 years of updates" (with one major update per year) could both means 1 or 0 updates or 4 updates

mattlondon 3y ago

Does anyone keep a phone for close to 8 years? Don't get me wrong this is a good thing but in my experience at about 3 years you are looking at roughly 1000 charging cycles and so the battery will barely last 12 hours. Add into that knocks and bumps and scratches and they're basically junk by then. Even if you could replace the battery, the physical wear and tear is quite substantial I find (they're tools after all) I suppose if you have been ultra cautious and basically leave your phone at home on the charger 90% of the time and keep it wrapped up in some huge case then it is conceivable that you might approach 8 years... But then if you are like this barely even use the phone, why not just get a feature phone?

thefz 3y ago
> at about 3 years you are looking at roughly 1000 charging cycles and so the battery will barely last 12 hours Then replace the battery and enjoy your phone. I still have 5+yo phones I use to listen to music at the gym or as a GPS with offline maps when cycling, and having a secure and up to date OS is nice.
ilikehurdles 3y ago
I take my 2019 iPhone XS to the Apple Store where they replace the battery for like $60something bucks. Never really gotten much wear and tear from these phones outside of cracked screens from hard drops (which I wouldn't classify as wear and tear). I completely lack any desire for new phone hardware so the new battery makes financial sense.
gameoverhumans 3y ago
> at about 3 years you are looking at roughly 1000 charging cycles and so the battery will barely last 12 hours. Yes, this is why user-replaceable batteries (which mobile phones had for many years) are important. So much so that the EU has passed legislation to force the industry to do the right thing. [1] > and keep it wrapped up in some huge case Depends on your phone, but I believe there's plenty of reasonable options to protect your pocket computing device that aren't "some huge case". Further, you should always invest in a decent screen protector. Scratches and damage to the screen impacts the usability of a slate form factor smartphone (since other than one or two hardware buttons, the entirety of your interaction with the device takes place through the screen). > Add into that knocks and bumps and scratches and they're basically junk by then. Why does some scuffing on the edges of the bezels turn a device into "junk", for you? [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/24/23771064/european-union-battery-regulation-ecodesign-user-replacable-batteries https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/24/23771064/european-union-b...

roesel 3y ago

This is a laudable effort, but maybe the Pixel team should first focus on feature updates not completely messing up their phones for months at a time? Owning a Pixel 4a has been great until the first major Android update, which made the "Adaptive battery" feature discharge the phone within two hours in standby. The fix didn't come for more then a year (!). A very similar thing then repeated with the next major update. One would think buying a phone from the main developer of the OS would come with more stability, reliability, and attention to detail, considering the argument of "oh, but it has to support a hundreds of thousands of phone models, not just 3 a year like Apple" is moot. What good does 8 years of support do if the phone is borked after 3?

rerx 3y ago
For what it's worth, I personally can't remember any issues with my Pixel 6 after any update so far.
- roesel 3y ago
  I realize my experiences are anecdotal to the two Pixel 4a phones in my family, but the numerous reddit threads about the Adaptive Battery issue (4a) and the later unexplained stand-by battery drain (4a & 7) seem to show that I have at least not been the only one experiencing this.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    Android has been having battery drain issues since forever. All it takes is some random app, library, system service or driver to get into an infinite loop waiting for something that will never happen, and suddenly battery life is cut down from multiple days to just a few hours.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  Occasionally I flash a pixel device back to an old firmware. Every time, I am surprised how speedy and lag-free it feels. I would really like a 'security updates only, no other updates' phone, because I value speed over some UI redesign or whatever is in the next android update.

jraedisch 3y ago

Switched to iPhone since I did not want to throw away another perfectly fine phone because of lacking security updates. Had a Nokia 8 before and would still have it if Nokia kept supporting it. Some things (e.g. Keyboard, VPN integration) were superior to my new iPhone.

GuB-42 3y ago
It looks like there is an unofficial LineageOS build for the Nokia 8. Most people don't bother, but on popular Android phones, community support can extend the life of the phone way beyond what the manufacturer provides.
- jraedisch 3y ago
  What’s your approach on evaluating an unofficial build?

kwanbix 3y ago

While I can clearly see how good iPhones are, I love my Android phones. The choice of choosing between different manufacturers is great for me. For example, I have been riding an Oppo Find X3 Pro, and I love it. The main problem that I see, is that while Apple concentrates in 4 phones per year (iPhone, iPhone Plus, iPhone Pro, and iPhone Pro Max), which all have more or less the same internals. Most Android manufacturers release 2030 phones per year, which different internals. The burden of supporting so many phones, is what kills any chance of long term support on Android IMHO. Imagine, in 10 years, Apple has to support 40 phones. In the same 10 years, Samsung or Xiaomi have to support 300 phones. The crazy thing is that most times, the difference between phones is so small, that I don't get what they do it.

knallfrosch 3y ago
That's a self-made problem, aka business decision. Samsung could release only 2 phones per year if they wanted to.
- kwanbix 3y ago
  Correct. I am just elaborating on one problem that they need to fix. I imagine they can do 5~9 phones per year and the situation should improve drastically.

nixass 3y ago

Now if Google would go away from Exynos for Tensor CPU then it would be even better for consumers

fifteen1506 3y ago
Another article, also probably here in HN, mentioned they plan to transition to TSMC in 2026 or something.

knallfrosch 3y ago

To be honest, most OS feature updates are completely useless. Case in point: - Android 13 comes with a new media player that puts album artwork on full display and features a dancing playback bar. - You're in control of which apps can send you notifications—helping you limit distractions. [Is that a new feature??] - Send and receive messages even when your phone’s out of reach by streaming your messaging apps directly to your Chromebook. https://www.android.com/android-13/ https://www.android.com/android-13/ Is that some sort of joke? Just patch the security holes so I can safely use my banking app and that's it. I don't need a redesigned music player. And then of course, there's the problem of new releases hogging resources and introducing buggy behaviour. At this point, I'd prefer a promise of "never new features and 8 years of security."

nicoburns 3y ago
The main reason for wanting OS upgrades as a consumer is that app developer tend to only support the last N versions. So at some point you’ll find that you can no longer use the apps you want to use if you’re stuck on an older version.
- Lammy 3y ago
  Hence why Google are forcing an API-level bump on app developers https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37280972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37280972

ga2mer 3y ago

Google is quite sneaky with updates: I own a Pixel 4a, which has guaranteed major updates ending in August (in a few days), but it's like Android 14 is purposely delayed and will come out most likely in September and thus skipping the 4a

pentagrama 3y ago

This article will be giving a better picture by simply adding a table with companies/models, years of support, os upgrades, security patches. Will summarize vastly what is saying with several paragraphs in a simple digestible table. Data journalism skills should be embedded in every news team.