5 ms·

My Toyota was the only car I ever bought that had exactly zero defects and worked perfectly in every capacity asked of it. They are the Debian Linux of vehicle

My Toyota was the only car I ever bought that had exactly zero defects and worked perfectly in every capacity asked of it. They are the Debian Linux of vehicles — older libraries but stable. No cutting edge package managers to crash your workday. Therefore, for them to shut the line down means they are working through a serious issue, but as long as they keep that commitment to “quality, reliability and durability” and the reputation they’ve earned because of it, I’m sure the reason is worth it. That said, the new Land Cruiser has cup holders for a third row seat in the US (a 250 globally, not sure why they decided to do a Lc brand on a 250 just for the US markets), but it… doesn’t have a third row to use them. It’s baffling and very not Toyota. So maybe they are slipping?

nsvd 3y ago
With regards to the cupholder, it's possible that Toyota is re-using parts from other vehicles which do have a third row, to bring down costs on the assembly line. Pure speculation on my part.
- jychang 3y ago
  Yep, this is the correct answer. The new Land Cruiser is built on the same platform as the Lexus GX, which has the 3rd row. Also, the 3rd row is being occupied by the hybrid battery system. In other countries where they offer a non-hybrid Land Cruiser, they have a 3rd row.
rootsudo 3y ago
every other market in the world the LC is 3 row seating. It isn't considered luxurious because the space in the trunk is more wanted. Look at LC in Philippines or APAC.
- happytiger 3y ago
  Absolutely. You know what you’re talking about. So why didn’t they delete the body panel for the US? It’s a minor part.
  - Danieru 3y ago
    You want Toyota to spend money revising a part... To offer fewer cup holders to Americans?
    - happytiger 3y ago
      Touché my friend. Accurate. But Touché.
Wowfunhappy 3y ago
Given the reliability, why didn't you buy from them again? (I'm assuming you did not due to use of past tense.)
- happytiger 3y ago
  Great question. Honest answer: I bought an LC 200 and it was more car than I was using or really needed so I sold it. I fucking loved it. Amazing vehicle. I’ve owned many amazing cars and it was an incredible vehicle. Top of my list. But I put 50k on it in 8 years and I just didn’t need it, so we decided to give it up for someone else to use and enjoy. I’m driving my old 2007 Chevy now. Gets the job done. I don’t love it as much, but as I’ve matured I’ve really had less and less desire to own things. I just don’t care about owning such a nice vehicle. It's a wonderful experience, but I'd rather spend my money investing, spending time with my friends and family or helping somebody else out. I don't know how to put it any other way. I loved it, but I kind of fell out of love with the whole system of accumulation and ownership in general. I don’t want to collect things. I don’t find much joy in pointless wealth or fancy cars I guess. I’d buy another one for sure if I needed it, but truthfully I’d rather ride my bike than have another ride. I don’t think I’m going to regret driving an old car on my death bed, even though I could afford otherwise. It’s also deeply interesting how much people ascribe to the trappings of ownership and the appearance of wealth. I guess I lost my desire to have a nice car? Like who fucking cares? I know that’s weird. But none of that shit made me actually happy. Travel, gardening, quiet love, children’s smiles and stuff like that is far more valuable than another car will ever be to me and I don’t want to waste my life paying for fancy shit that doesn’t make me truly happy. Sorry if that’s too much of an answer but it’s heartfelt.
  - throwaw1yyy 3y ago
    You have found happiness. But don’t forget about being a complete idiot sometimes: if you avoid big trucks, fast cars, and cute girls - you’ll get boring to the people you love; because to them your dumb moments made you cool Much love man, keep it steady
    - 3y ago
cookiengineer 3y ago
Two years ago, all Toyota plants were stopped due to a cyber attack. Toyota itself wasn't the target, but one of its suppliers got hit. It was a belt manufacturer in Ukraine, whose cyber incident also affected VW, CARIAD, Audi, EvoBus, BMW and others. Can't name more for obvious reasons, but more information can be googled easily. NotPetya and 2014 changed how I see the world now. Everything is hackable, given the right chain of trust and dependency. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-halt-production-5-factories-january-due-supply-chain-issues-2021-12-20/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota...
- caporaltito 3y ago
  A manufacturer in Ukraine? I wonder which hackers from which country would have incentives to do that in 2014.
  - cookiengineer 3y ago
    I know, right? Rumors say it must have been a nation with incentives to conquer. Jokes aside, I think that cyber warfare is the worst case scenario in terms of military efficiency, as it causes collateral civilian damage across the globe and its effects cannot be contained inside any borders. And Toyota is a prime example of that. They ain't got nothing to do with the war, and were affected by it a bunch of times already.
    - thfuran 3y ago
      You think the effects would've been more localized if the manufacturer were bombed instead? Collateral damage affected civilians because the target was civilian, not because of the method of attack.
    - me_me_me 3y ago
      > as it causes collateral civilian damage across the globe and its effects cannot be contained inside any borders. Again it does sound like a modus operandi of a particular country... so many coincidences
PaulWaldman 3y ago
>Therefore, for them to shut the line down means they are working through a serious issue This is quite the conclusion to draw based on your experience your Toyota vehicle. The product and supply chain teams won't necessarily have the same goals.
carabiner 3y ago
Toyotas are too expensive today. For total cost of ownership, it's probably reached parity with used BMWs, it's just that with the Toyota you frontload the maintenance costs in the purchase price. The BMW will be much nicer to drive, but it'll have $1,000 in surprise maintenance (on top of oil changes) every year while being much cheaper to acquire.
- glimshe 3y ago
  When I was looking to buy a car, that was not what I saw. What you said may be the case with other brands such as Hyundai or Chevrolet, but for BMWs you are always paying more - frontloading and recurrent maintenance.
  - longitudinal93 3y ago
    Except in the case of the i3 which has, by far, the highest reliability and lowest maintenance costs of any BMW ever produced. No wonder they discontinued them!
- badpun 3y ago
  And also, every now and then, the BMW's engine or uber-complicated automatic transmission will have major issues, and you're out of $5k-$10k.
SkyPuncher 3y ago
I have a 3rd row, but rarely use it. The cup holders are fantastic for easily accessible knock-knits, light flashlight, dog leashes, and infant stroller toys.

nsvd 3y ago

With regards to the cupholder, it's possible that Toyota is re-using parts from other vehicles which do have a third row, to bring down costs on the assembly line. Pure speculation on my part.

jychang 3y ago
Yep, this is the correct answer. The new Land Cruiser is built on the same platform as the Lexus GX, which has the 3rd row. Also, the 3rd row is being occupied by the hybrid battery system. In other countries where they offer a non-hybrid Land Cruiser, they have a 3rd row.

rootsudo 3y ago

every other market in the world the LC is 3 row seating. It isn't considered luxurious because the space in the trunk is more wanted. Look at LC in Philippines or APAC.

happytiger 3y ago
Absolutely. You know what you’re talking about. So why didn’t they delete the body panel for the US? It’s a minor part.
- Danieru 3y ago
  You want Toyota to spend money revising a part... To offer fewer cup holders to Americans?
  - happytiger 3y ago
    Touché my friend. Accurate. But Touché.

Wowfunhappy 3y ago

Given the reliability, why didn't you buy from them again? (I'm assuming you did not due to use of past tense.)

happytiger 3y ago
Great question. Honest answer: I bought an LC 200 and it was more car than I was using or really needed so I sold it. I fucking loved it. Amazing vehicle. I’ve owned many amazing cars and it was an incredible vehicle. Top of my list. But I put 50k on it in 8 years and I just didn’t need it, so we decided to give it up for someone else to use and enjoy. I’m driving my old 2007 Chevy now. Gets the job done. I don’t love it as much, but as I’ve matured I’ve really had less and less desire to own things. I just don’t care about owning such a nice vehicle. It's a wonderful experience, but I'd rather spend my money investing, spending time with my friends and family or helping somebody else out. I don't know how to put it any other way. I loved it, but I kind of fell out of love with the whole system of accumulation and ownership in general. I don’t want to collect things. I don’t find much joy in pointless wealth or fancy cars I guess. I’d buy another one for sure if I needed it, but truthfully I’d rather ride my bike than have another ride. I don’t think I’m going to regret driving an old car on my death bed, even though I could afford otherwise. It’s also deeply interesting how much people ascribe to the trappings of ownership and the appearance of wealth. I guess I lost my desire to have a nice car? Like who fucking cares? I know that’s weird. But none of that shit made me actually happy. Travel, gardening, quiet love, children’s smiles and stuff like that is far more valuable than another car will ever be to me and I don’t want to waste my life paying for fancy shit that doesn’t make me truly happy. Sorry if that’s too much of an answer but it’s heartfelt.
- throwaw1yyy 3y ago
  You have found happiness. But don’t forget about being a complete idiot sometimes: if you avoid big trucks, fast cars, and cute girls - you’ll get boring to the people you love; because to them your dumb moments made you cool Much love man, keep it steady
  - 3y ago

cookiengineer 3y ago

Two years ago, all Toyota plants were stopped due to a cyber attack. Toyota itself wasn't the target, but one of its suppliers got hit. It was a belt manufacturer in Ukraine, whose cyber incident also affected VW, CARIAD, Audi, EvoBus, BMW and others. Can't name more for obvious reasons, but more information can be googled easily. NotPetya and 2014 changed how I see the world now. Everything is hackable, given the right chain of trust and dependency. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-halt-production-5-factories-january-due-supply-chain-issues-2021-12-20/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota...

caporaltito 3y ago
A manufacturer in Ukraine? I wonder which hackers from which country would have incentives to do that in 2014.
- cookiengineer 3y ago
  I know, right? Rumors say it must have been a nation with incentives to conquer. Jokes aside, I think that cyber warfare is the worst case scenario in terms of military efficiency, as it causes collateral civilian damage across the globe and its effects cannot be contained inside any borders. And Toyota is a prime example of that. They ain't got nothing to do with the war, and were affected by it a bunch of times already.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    You think the effects would've been more localized if the manufacturer were bombed instead? Collateral damage affected civilians because the target was civilian, not because of the method of attack.
  - me_me_me 3y ago
    > as it causes collateral civilian damage across the globe and its effects cannot be contained inside any borders. Again it does sound like a modus operandi of a particular country... so many coincidences

PaulWaldman 3y ago

>Therefore, for them to shut the line down means they are working through a serious issue This is quite the conclusion to draw based on your experience your Toyota vehicle. The product and supply chain teams won't necessarily have the same goals.

carabiner 3y ago

Toyotas are too expensive today. For total cost of ownership, it's probably reached parity with used BMWs, it's just that with the Toyota you frontload the maintenance costs in the purchase price. The BMW will be much nicer to drive, but it'll have $1,000 in surprise maintenance (on top of oil changes) every year while being much cheaper to acquire.

glimshe 3y ago
When I was looking to buy a car, that was not what I saw. What you said may be the case with other brands such as Hyundai or Chevrolet, but for BMWs you are always paying more - frontloading and recurrent maintenance.
- longitudinal93 3y ago
  Except in the case of the i3 which has, by far, the highest reliability and lowest maintenance costs of any BMW ever produced. No wonder they discontinued them!
badpun 3y ago
And also, every now and then, the BMW's engine or uber-complicated automatic transmission will have major issues, and you're out of $5k-$10k.

SkyPuncher 3y ago

I have a 3rd row, but rarely use it. The cup holders are fantastic for easily accessible knock-knits, light flashlight, dog leashes, and infant stroller toys.