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I appreciate what you are saying about Internet fanboyism. Personally, I can recognize Elon Musk for perhaps being the right person at the right time to advanc

by xpe 3y ago

I appreciate what you are saying about Internet fanboyism. Personally, I can recognize Elon Musk for perhaps being the right person at the right time to advance Tesla while also disagreeing with many of his actions and detesting the example he sets. It is interesting to think about how hype works and the role of devoted fans. Hype has been around longer than mass media; clearly there are deep roots in human psychology. Fanaticism (i.e. around one's preferred sports team) has pretty primal roots. (Aside: I wonder if the popularity of sports decreased during WW2. Seems to me in the face of real war, a simulation is less compelling.) > It's beyond my understanding... Perhaps. But what if you find one such person, ask questions, and put yourself in their shoes? There is a story there; probably one that doesn't follow your logic. Two common drivers are identity and group membership. By e.g. becoming a public fan of some product, a person can identify with a narrative of something they care about and belong to a group. It often gives people a sense of being ahead of the curve, or creative, or intelligent, or whatever it is they value. Even if your particular reasoning is sound (i.e. the billionaires don't need the fanboys, so why bother?), why do you think your logic would be the key driver? In other words, if your reasoning was already top-of-mind for such fanatics, they wouldn't be fanatics at all. I'd guess you already know much of this. Perhaps what you mean is you dislike the consequences of fanboyism. But I doubt that is what really bothers you. Here's my guess. It is much deeper: you don't like that people are illogical and therefore self-defeating. It doesn't help that they also things worse for the rest of us.

esjeon 3y ago
> It is much deeper: you don't like that people are illogical and therefore self-defeating. This is a typical case of over-generalization based on the Barnum–Forer effect[1]. At the very moment you label someone as "illogical", you're already having communication issues with the person, and, naturally, you don't have the best impression on the person anyway. So this statement practically fits every single person on the planet. Mind that relying on tricks like these puts you in the realm of being illogical. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect > Perhaps. But what if you find one such person, ask questions, and put yourself in their shoes? ... Yeah I get the overall mechanism there, but I don't think it's critical here. My point is that the outcome of fanboyism has been harmful, and, especially, it has killed a lot of healthy discussions. This doesn't help anyone, so it needs to be trimmed somehow. A healthy fan base must be regulating itself and channel all the fans' energy to more productive stuffs rather than flaming internet forums.
- xpe 3y ago
  I understand and largely agree with your general concerns. I'm having a hard time getting a read on your intended tone here. I hope you are getting something out of the conversation, since you are responding. However, some of your word choice seems to indicate irritation (e.g. saying my comments are pedantic and so on). Regarding my intended tone... First, I'm genuinely curious about your strong reactions. Any guesses I have as to your deeper causes are, like I say, guesses. They are based on imperfect pattern matching. Second, logically speaking, some of the supporting details, as you state them, are unpersuasive to me, but I appreciate where they are coming from. I also recognize I'm not getting the full context. I sometimes engage in longer threads of discussion here on HN not only out of curiosity but also because I'm exploring various ways to communicate and connect. As such, I'm very aware of the non-textual human factors.

by xpe 3y ago

esjeon 3y ago

> It is much deeper: you don't like that people are illogical and therefore self-defeating. This is a typical case of over-generalization based on the Barnum–Forer effect[1]. At the very moment you label someone as "illogical", you're already having communication issues with the person, and, naturally, you don't have the best impression on the person anyway. So this statement practically fits every single person on the planet. Mind that relying on tricks like these puts you in the realm of being illogical. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect > Perhaps. But what if you find one such person, ask questions, and put yourself in their shoes? ... Yeah I get the overall mechanism there, but I don't think it's critical here. My point is that the outcome of fanboyism has been harmful, and, especially, it has killed a lot of healthy discussions. This doesn't help anyone, so it needs to be trimmed somehow. A healthy fan base must be regulating itself and channel all the fans' energy to more productive stuffs rather than flaming internet forums.

xpe 3y ago
I understand and largely agree with your general concerns. I'm having a hard time getting a read on your intended tone here. I hope you are getting something out of the conversation, since you are responding. However, some of your word choice seems to indicate irritation (e.g. saying my comments are pedantic and so on). Regarding my intended tone... First, I'm genuinely curious about your strong reactions. Any guesses I have as to your deeper causes are, like I say, guesses. They are based on imperfect pattern matching. Second, logically speaking, some of the supporting details, as you state them, are unpersuasive to me, but I appreciate where they are coming from. I also recognize I'm not getting the full context. I sometimes engage in longer threads of discussion here on HN not only out of curiosity but also because I'm exploring various ways to communicate and connect. As such, I'm very aware of the non-textual human factors.