3 ms·

The employment of an individual that has an employment contract is governed by the strictest set of rules between the right-to-work state's laws and the employm

by abduhl 3y ago

The employment of an individual that has an employment contract is governed by the strictest set of rules between the right-to-work state's laws and the employment contract. Literally every permissible provision of an employment contract can be a protection: golden parachutes, vacation days, sick days, payout of the same, IP guarantees for hobby work, employment benefits, etc. Right to work at its most generic level means freedom from being forced into a union, not freedom from being held to a contract.

feoren 3y ago
> golden parachutes Nobody has these except top execs who are already in a huge position of power. > vacation days, sick days, payout of the same Nope, not anymore: nothing is guaranteed with "flexible time off". I literally cannot meet my performance goal if I take more than 1 day of sick/vacation day PER YEAR. Yes, my raises are tied to this performance goal. Yes, it's probably illegal, but who cares? Nobody is ever going to do anything about it. This is every company with FTO. Who gets "paid out" for PTO anymore? > IP guarantees for hobby work You're joking, right? Most employment contracts claim that they own the slam poetry you write on your napkin at 2:00 am on a Saturday while high on your couch. Every mention of IP in an employment contract is as greedy as possible. > employment benefits Ok but in a right to work state these can be terminated any time anyway. Literally nothing about an employment contract is ever written in favor of the actual employee. Of course it's not: they wrote it. If every company in an industry does this and they all refuse to negotiate, workers have no choice but to sign it. It's crazy to me to think that a U.S. company would voluntarily ever do anything in the interest of any of its employees, ever. This is the whole reason why ambiguities are supposed to go in favor of the party that didn't write it. Voiding any part of an employee contract can therefore only ever benefit the employee (except possibly the part where they get paid). If you want protections for employees, look to regulation and unions, not contracts written by the employer.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- _dain_ 3y ago
  > I literally cannot meet my performance goal if I take more than 1 day of sick/vacation day PER YEAR. why not get another job?
  - feoren 3y ago
    Because for all the bullshit I have to put up with, and all the things I hate about management, and all the things that could easily be better but for one asshole vice-president needing to cosplay Business Hero ... for all of that, the job is deeply interesting and I learn a ton every day. And virtually every other job on the market is mind-numbingly boring and pointless. And because I like my immediate teammates a lot. And because the issues I'm railing against are incredibly pervasive in most companies in the United States and probably beyond. Our capitalism has been completely taken over by a caste of parasitic leeches who enshittify everything they touch and I am under no illusion that any other job would be any different. But I do also look for other jobs regularly. Finding a job that is both interesting (<1%) and not full of shithead management (<5%) is about 1 in 2,000.
- abduhl 3y ago
  I don’t know what to say in response to your complaints except negotiate better working conditions next time you get hired. The company wrote it. You accepted it. You can always ask for different terms and walk away if they don’t agree, start your own company, or change industries to one where companies are willing to negotiate. If you want protections for employees, sure you can (erroneously, in my opinion) look to unions. If you want protections for yourself, look to negotiate.
  - feoren 3y ago
    > You can always ask for different terms and walk away if they don’t agree, start your own company, or change industries to one where companies are willing to negotiate. I suspect you have lived a very privileged life if you really believe these options are actually open to most employees in the U.S. Switch industries? Start your own company? Those are both extreme life-altering multi-year responses to losing PTO payout, and only work for people who have major safety nets and support in their lives. Companies pull this bullshit because they know they can get away with it. Guess what: they're right. I'm glad you are in such a state of privilege that you can spend 4 years going back to college and switching industries without going into massive debt and without suffering from the loss of income during that time, but you are extremely lucky to be in that position. Do not assume others are lazy and/or stupid and/or bad negotiators because they can't. Negotiating is not about shaking hands harder, it's about having leverage, and 98% of U.S. workers have none. > negotiate better working conditions next time you get hired These were not the working conditions at the time I was hired. None of this was in any contract I signed. Companies change this stuff after-the-fact all the time. What are you going to do, hire an employment lawyer? You'd poison your own drinking well, potentially forever, with the possible upside of being the only employee in your company that actually get PTO paid out? Come on. Nobody is doing this. Companies pull this bullshit because they can.
    - abduhl 3y ago
      I grew up what you’d call “lower middle class.” Your suspicions are incorrect. I’ve switched industries twice in my life to the tune of nearly a third a million in student loan debt. I know how difficult it is and how expensive it is, but the actual strength of some people’s personal convictions matches the strength of the convictions you pretend to have online. Just like you, the companies I worked at (and owned a portion of) changed or the industries I worked in changed, but unlike you I left (and forced them to cash out my PTO because, contrary to what you think, you do have an enforceable employment contract even if it’s in the form of a benefits package, an employee handbook, or even just “that’s what the company normally does” at that point in time) after realizing that the change was permanent rather than taking to the internet to complain while continuing to pull an easy paycheck. It’s strange that the people who tell you how difficult something is are almost always people who haven’t done it and the people who tell you how privileged you are almost always are even more so themselves. Tell me, when’s the last time you swung a hammer or pulled unemployment benefits?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by abduhl 3y ago

feoren 3y ago

> golden parachutes Nobody has these except top execs who are already in a huge position of power. > vacation days, sick days, payout of the same Nope, not anymore: nothing is guaranteed with "flexible time off". I literally cannot meet my performance goal if I take more than 1 day of sick/vacation day PER YEAR. Yes, my raises are tied to this performance goal. Yes, it's probably illegal, but who cares? Nobody is ever going to do anything about it. This is every company with FTO. Who gets "paid out" for PTO anymore? > IP guarantees for hobby work You're joking, right? Most employment contracts claim that they own the slam poetry you write on your napkin at 2:00 am on a Saturday while high on your couch. Every mention of IP in an employment contract is as greedy as possible. > employment benefits Ok but in a right to work state these can be terminated any time anyway. Literally nothing about an employment contract is ever written in favor of the actual employee. Of course it's not: they wrote it. If every company in an industry does this and they all refuse to negotiate, workers have no choice but to sign it. It's crazy to me to think that a U.S. company would voluntarily ever do anything in the interest of any of its employees, ever. This is the whole reason why ambiguities are supposed to go in favor of the party that didn't write it. Voiding any part of an employee contract can therefore only ever benefit the employee (except possibly the part where they get paid). If you want protections for employees, look to regulation and unions, not contracts written by the employer.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
_dain_ 3y ago
> I literally cannot meet my performance goal if I take more than 1 day of sick/vacation day PER YEAR. why not get another job?
- feoren 3y ago
  Because for all the bullshit I have to put up with, and all the things I hate about management, and all the things that could easily be better but for one asshole vice-president needing to cosplay Business Hero ... for all of that, the job is deeply interesting and I learn a ton every day. And virtually every other job on the market is mind-numbingly boring and pointless. And because I like my immediate teammates a lot. And because the issues I'm railing against are incredibly pervasive in most companies in the United States and probably beyond. Our capitalism has been completely taken over by a caste of parasitic leeches who enshittify everything they touch and I am under no illusion that any other job would be any different. But I do also look for other jobs regularly. Finding a job that is both interesting (<1%) and not full of shithead management (<5%) is about 1 in 2,000.
abduhl 3y ago
I don’t know what to say in response to your complaints except negotiate better working conditions next time you get hired. The company wrote it. You accepted it. You can always ask for different terms and walk away if they don’t agree, start your own company, or change industries to one where companies are willing to negotiate. If you want protections for employees, sure you can (erroneously, in my opinion) look to unions. If you want protections for yourself, look to negotiate.
- feoren 3y ago
  > You can always ask for different terms and walk away if they don’t agree, start your own company, or change industries to one where companies are willing to negotiate. I suspect you have lived a very privileged life if you really believe these options are actually open to most employees in the U.S. Switch industries? Start your own company? Those are both extreme life-altering multi-year responses to losing PTO payout, and only work for people who have major safety nets and support in their lives. Companies pull this bullshit because they know they can get away with it. Guess what: they're right. I'm glad you are in such a state of privilege that you can spend 4 years going back to college and switching industries without going into massive debt and without suffering from the loss of income during that time, but you are extremely lucky to be in that position. Do not assume others are lazy and/or stupid and/or bad negotiators because they can't. Negotiating is not about shaking hands harder, it's about having leverage, and 98% of U.S. workers have none. > negotiate better working conditions next time you get hired These were not the working conditions at the time I was hired. None of this was in any contract I signed. Companies change this stuff after-the-fact all the time. What are you going to do, hire an employment lawyer? You'd poison your own drinking well, potentially forever, with the possible upside of being the only employee in your company that actually get PTO paid out? Come on. Nobody is doing this. Companies pull this bullshit because they can.
  - abduhl 3y ago
    I grew up what you’d call “lower middle class.” Your suspicions are incorrect. I’ve switched industries twice in my life to the tune of nearly a third a million in student loan debt. I know how difficult it is and how expensive it is, but the actual strength of some people’s personal convictions matches the strength of the convictions you pretend to have online. Just like you, the companies I worked at (and owned a portion of) changed or the industries I worked in changed, but unlike you I left (and forced them to cash out my PTO because, contrary to what you think, you do have an enforceable employment contract even if it’s in the form of a benefits package, an employee handbook, or even just “that’s what the company normally does” at that point in time) after realizing that the change was permanent rather than taking to the internet to complain while continuing to pull an easy paycheck. It’s strange that the people who tell you how difficult something is are almost always people who haven’t done it and the people who tell you how privileged you are almost always are even more so themselves. Tell me, when’s the last time you swung a hammer or pulled unemployment benefits?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]