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Most amazing of all is how, according to the article, there's nothing even driving young men into the arms of the manosphere. No underlying problems, no systemi

Most amazing of all is how, according to the article, there's nothing even driving young men into the arms of the manosphere. No underlying problems, no systemic issues, no societal attitudes. It's happening for no reason at all, based on nothing but made-up talking points. “They’re basically trying to create a problem which doesn’t exist, and then get you to pay for a solution to that problem,” Mark told me. This distinguishes the manosphere from other, valid social movements, that are based only on fact. Please rely on MotherJones to tell you which is which.

zzzeek 3y ago
> Most amazing of all is how, according to the article, there's nothing even driving young men into the arms of the manosphere. No underlying problems, no systemic issues, no societal attitudes. It's happening for no reason at all, based on nothing but made-up talking points. Let's try reading the article....this should help > It’s tempting to use the cyclical nature of the male crisis (and the cynical version of its modern variant) as a reason to reject worry about men. But there are plenty of reasons to be concerned. In his new book Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, And What to Do About It, Richard V. Reeves, a fellow at the Brookings Institution and founder of the new American Institute for Boys and Men, argues that unlike the late 19th century, or 1958, today’s men actually have fallen significantly behind women on a number of sociological metrics. > In every school district in the United States, girls do better than boys in English and Language Arts. In Chicago, the gap between girls and boys getting high grades is identical to the gap in social class. Programs designed specifically to boost educational achievement for underprivileged kids like the Kalamazoo Promise are effective for girls but barely move the needle for boys. Almost a full quarter of boys are diagnosed with a developmental disability—twice as many as girls. One third of men with a high school diploma are out of the labor force. In 2014, one third of adult men lived with their parents. “The success of the women’s movement has not caused the precariousness of male social identity,” writes Reeves, “but it has exposed it.” > Boys are not finding a way to live that feels rewarding. According to a 2017 Pew study, men find less meaning in their lives, from fewer sources, than women. Research by the Survey Center on American Life published in 2021 shows that men are increasingly lonely. One in five single American men report that they do not have one person in their lives they consider a close friend. The words that suicidal men are most likely to use to describe how they feel is “useless” and “worthless.” This article is not denying the existence of problems. It is highlighting that online misogynists selling supplements and courses are making it worse, while they profit off of this misery popularizing empty, reactionary agendas that hurt everyone.
- SenAnder 3y ago
  But it is denying demonization of men. "Men failed, men have fallen, men find less meaning" - society is fair and balanced (when it's not a white hetero-patriarchy), men just aren't fit for it, is the takeaway. Meanwhile: While plenty of shelters for women existed, the only publicly funded services available for men were for anger management. "As a victim, I was re-victimized by having these services telling me that I wasn't a victim, but I was a perpetrator," [..] "Family violence has gone from a social issue to only a woman's issue. So any support for men is interpreted as being against women," said Silverman in an interview with Beacon News. In early 2013, Silverman announced that the sanctuary will be closing because he could no longer afford to run it due to a lack of funding. He sold the house shortly after to a man named Steven Howitt, and committed suicide the next day. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Silverman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Silverman So there's no interest in helping males, except helping them feel guilty, sorry, "deconstruct their privilege": https://www.city-journal.org/lockheed-martins-woke-industrial-complex https://www.city-journal.org/lockheed-martins-woke-industria... What happens when eliminating discrimination accidentally slightly helps men? It's considered a failure and is immediately paused: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-recruitment-trial-to-improve-gender-equality-failing-study/8664888 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-recruitment-tri... Of course outlets like MotherJones will remain willfully credulous how feminism wants to help men (if they'd just admit how they are to blame for everything and repent first).
  - zzzeek 3y ago
    > society is fair and balanced (when it's not a white hetero-patriarchy), men just aren't fit for it, is the takeaway. that is most certainly not what the article says. it squarely takes aim at soaring income inequality as a key factor, for example. Are we to read your anecdotes and then conclude, "wow Andrew Tate is right, women really should be treated as second class citizens, to be sexually trafficked and otherwise by people such as myself, otherwise men will continue be mistreated" ? Re the Lockheed thing, that article is written by Chris Rufo who is pretty much the most successful right wing propagandist of our time right now, literally single-handedly convinced half the country that "critical race theory" is being taught to public school kids, which it is not, in any way, or has ever been, or will ever be [1]. One Chris Rufo is worth 25 "Mother Joneses" on the scale of bias. I work for a large multinational company with a robust DEI program (Red Hat via IBM) and DEI programs are nothing like whatever that was that Lockheed was doing, which based on the ultra-right-wing propagandist source who wrote that story I would be extremely suspect is vastly out of context. [1] https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conse...

zzzeek 3y ago

> Most amazing of all is how, according to the article, there's nothing even driving young men into the arms of the manosphere. No underlying problems, no systemic issues, no societal attitudes. It's happening for no reason at all, based on nothing but made-up talking points. Let's try reading the article....this should help > It’s tempting to use the cyclical nature of the male crisis (and the cynical version of its modern variant) as a reason to reject worry about men. But there are plenty of reasons to be concerned. In his new book Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, And What to Do About It, Richard V. Reeves, a fellow at the Brookings Institution and founder of the new American Institute for Boys and Men, argues that unlike the late 19th century, or 1958, today’s men actually have fallen significantly behind women on a number of sociological metrics. > In every school district in the United States, girls do better than boys in English and Language Arts. In Chicago, the gap between girls and boys getting high grades is identical to the gap in social class. Programs designed specifically to boost educational achievement for underprivileged kids like the Kalamazoo Promise are effective for girls but barely move the needle for boys. Almost a full quarter of boys are diagnosed with a developmental disability—twice as many as girls. One third of men with a high school diploma are out of the labor force. In 2014, one third of adult men lived with their parents. “The success of the women’s movement has not caused the precariousness of male social identity,” writes Reeves, “but it has exposed it.” > Boys are not finding a way to live that feels rewarding. According to a 2017 Pew study, men find less meaning in their lives, from fewer sources, than women. Research by the Survey Center on American Life published in 2021 shows that men are increasingly lonely. One in five single American men report that they do not have one person in their lives they consider a close friend. The words that suicidal men are most likely to use to describe how they feel is “useless” and “worthless.” This article is not denying the existence of problems. It is highlighting that online misogynists selling supplements and courses are making it worse, while they profit off of this misery popularizing empty, reactionary agendas that hurt everyone.

SenAnder 3y ago
But it is denying demonization of men. "Men failed, men have fallen, men find less meaning" - society is fair and balanced (when it's not a white hetero-patriarchy), men just aren't fit for it, is the takeaway. Meanwhile: While plenty of shelters for women existed, the only publicly funded services available for men were for anger management. "As a victim, I was re-victimized by having these services telling me that I wasn't a victim, but I was a perpetrator," [..] "Family violence has gone from a social issue to only a woman's issue. So any support for men is interpreted as being against women," said Silverman in an interview with Beacon News. In early 2013, Silverman announced that the sanctuary will be closing because he could no longer afford to run it due to a lack of funding. He sold the house shortly after to a man named Steven Howitt, and committed suicide the next day. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Silverman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Silverman So there's no interest in helping males, except helping them feel guilty, sorry, "deconstruct their privilege": https://www.city-journal.org/lockheed-martins-woke-industrial-complex https://www.city-journal.org/lockheed-martins-woke-industria... What happens when eliminating discrimination accidentally slightly helps men? It's considered a failure and is immediately paused: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-recruitment-trial-to-improve-gender-equality-failing-study/8664888 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-recruitment-tri... Of course outlets like MotherJones will remain willfully credulous how feminism wants to help men (if they'd just admit how they are to blame for everything and repent first).
- zzzeek 3y ago
  > society is fair and balanced (when it's not a white hetero-patriarchy), men just aren't fit for it, is the takeaway. that is most certainly not what the article says. it squarely takes aim at soaring income inequality as a key factor, for example. Are we to read your anecdotes and then conclude, "wow Andrew Tate is right, women really should be treated as second class citizens, to be sexually trafficked and otherwise by people such as myself, otherwise men will continue be mistreated" ? Re the Lockheed thing, that article is written by Chris Rufo who is pretty much the most successful right wing propagandist of our time right now, literally single-handedly convinced half the country that "critical race theory" is being taught to public school kids, which it is not, in any way, or has ever been, or will ever be [1]. One Chris Rufo is worth 25 "Mother Joneses" on the scale of bias. I work for a large multinational company with a robust DEI program (Red Hat via IBM) and DEI programs are nothing like whatever that was that Lockheed was doing, which based on the ultra-right-wing propagandist source who wrote that story I would be extremely suspect is vastly out of context. [1] https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conse...