4 ms·

Western writers (usually) aren't taking direct orders from the government, but that doesn't mean they're impartial weather vanes that reveal currents in society

Western writers (usually) aren't taking direct orders from the government, but that doesn't mean they're impartial weather vanes that reveal currents in society but never try to manipulate (or fabricate) those social currents as they see fit.

dotnet00 3y ago
And yet that doesn't support these conspiracies you and thread OP want to believe in.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  What conspiracies are you talking about? You should read Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chompsky. Most of what seems to be a conspiracy in western media is not actually organized as a conspiracy, but is emergent behavior in a system in which individual actors have aligned incentives. Acting individually without coordination, people hire and promote people who think like them, and ape then adopt the beliefs of their superiors. I said usually western writers don't take direct orders from the government because sometimes they do, and this isn't even a secret. Hollywood lets the US military rewrite movies whenever they want access to military hardware and facilities. And during wartime, the US government employs writers to produce propaganda. Superhero comics in particular have their roots in overt war propaganda.
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    The conspiracies being your attempt to argue that the superhero movie fad is some absurd attempt at making billionaires look good. If you look for a conspiracy in everything, you're going to find it in everything. Entertainment is generally just entertainment and this sort of overanalysis of things to push an agenda has been part of what has made so much of modern entertainment so cookie cutter.
    - saiya-jin 3y ago
      Yeah but just with literally everything else in life, everything is way more complex than first glance suggests, interconnected and if you actually care to dig deeper, you find interesting stuff. Nobody sane argues western Illuminati is steering and manipulating everything and everybody towards desired future, yet mass media manipulation is extremely common practice, ie mr Murdoch and similar folks have significant powers. Also lets not forget that CIA was very active in Hollywood for many decades with light and not so light touches here and there, I mean its the propaganda tool for US hegemony and spreading western view on society, values, 'american dream' etc. If you want to shoot say an action movie with real US planes landing on real aircraft carriers, US navy will have non-trivial impact on your movie and its story (so most end up as over-patriotic to the point of being unwatchable for many non-US viewers). Its all natural and logical, all humans like to see or hear stories that make us feel good even if its not proper truth, much more than stories telling some ugly hard truths.
      - norman_roman 3y ago
        [flagged]
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      I just told you it's not a conspiracy, you're tilting at windmills. I have not proposed a conspiracy to create movies like this, I don't think there's a cabal of billionaires who dreamed up and coordinate this as a deliberate propaganda campaign. I assert that the Hollywood system creates movies like this because because of the way it is structured and the nature of making movies. People who fit the mold and are naturally inclined to make movies like this get promoted and given opportunities by like-minded people. People who don't jive with the crowd never have the opportunity to make movies of their own, because making movies (particularly blockbusters) requires access to a system with lots of capital and manpower. I'm not the one looking for conspiracies. You're looking for a conspiracy in what I'm saying so that you can dismiss it. Read Manufacturing Consent.
      - dotnet00 3y ago
  - smolder 3y ago
    Chompsky makes a biting critique of the US military-industrial complex. It's a great book that I recommend everyone sink their teeth into at some point.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  Op-Ed: Why does the Pentagon give a helping hand to films like ‘Top Gun’? https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-05-30/top-gun-maverick-memorial-day-tom-cruise-pentagon-propaganda https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-05-30/top-gun-mav... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theaters_of_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theaters_of_War Pay No Attention to the G-Man Behind the Curtain https://www.theatlantic.com/membership/archive/2018/03/pay-no-attention-to-the-g-man-behind-the-curtain/555839/ https://www.theatlantic.com/membership/archive/2018/03/pay-n... In the ‘90s the U.S. Government Paid TV Networks to Weave “Anti-Drug” Messaging Into Their Plot Lines. Here Are the Worst Examples. https://www.columnblog.com/p/in-the-90s-the-us-government-paid https://www.columnblog.com/p/in-the-90s-the-us-government-pa... Education Dept. paid commentator to promote law https://web.archive.org/web/20100722051019/http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-01-06-williams-whitehouse_x.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20100722051019/http://www.usatod... https://www.gao.gov/products/b-305368 https://www.gao.gov/products/b-305368

dotnet00 3y ago

And yet that doesn't support these conspiracies you and thread OP want to believe in.

mcpackieh 3y ago
What conspiracies are you talking about? You should read Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chompsky. Most of what seems to be a conspiracy in western media is not actually organized as a conspiracy, but is emergent behavior in a system in which individual actors have aligned incentives. Acting individually without coordination, people hire and promote people who think like them, and ape then adopt the beliefs of their superiors. I said usually western writers don't take direct orders from the government because sometimes they do, and this isn't even a secret. Hollywood lets the US military rewrite movies whenever they want access to military hardware and facilities. And during wartime, the US government employs writers to produce propaganda. Superhero comics in particular have their roots in overt war propaganda.
- dotnet00 3y ago
  The conspiracies being your attempt to argue that the superhero movie fad is some absurd attempt at making billionaires look good. If you look for a conspiracy in everything, you're going to find it in everything. Entertainment is generally just entertainment and this sort of overanalysis of things to push an agenda has been part of what has made so much of modern entertainment so cookie cutter.
  - saiya-jin 3y ago
    Yeah but just with literally everything else in life, everything is way more complex than first glance suggests, interconnected and if you actually care to dig deeper, you find interesting stuff. Nobody sane argues western Illuminati is steering and manipulating everything and everybody towards desired future, yet mass media manipulation is extremely common practice, ie mr Murdoch and similar folks have significant powers. Also lets not forget that CIA was very active in Hollywood for many decades with light and not so light touches here and there, I mean its the propaganda tool for US hegemony and spreading western view on society, values, 'american dream' etc. If you want to shoot say an action movie with real US planes landing on real aircraft carriers, US navy will have non-trivial impact on your movie and its story (so most end up as over-patriotic to the point of being unwatchable for many non-US viewers). Its all natural and logical, all humans like to see or hear stories that make us feel good even if its not proper truth, much more than stories telling some ugly hard truths.
    - norman_roman 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    I just told you it's not a conspiracy, you're tilting at windmills. I have not proposed a conspiracy to create movies like this, I don't think there's a cabal of billionaires who dreamed up and coordinate this as a deliberate propaganda campaign. I assert that the Hollywood system creates movies like this because because of the way it is structured and the nature of making movies. People who fit the mold and are naturally inclined to make movies like this get promoted and given opportunities by like-minded people. People who don't jive with the crowd never have the opportunity to make movies of their own, because making movies (particularly blockbusters) requires access to a system with lots of capital and manpower. I'm not the one looking for conspiracies. You're looking for a conspiracy in what I'm saying so that you can dismiss it. Read Manufacturing Consent.
    - dotnet00 3y ago
- smolder 3y ago
  Chompsky makes a biting critique of the US military-industrial complex. It's a great book that I recommend everyone sink their teeth into at some point.
pessimizer 3y ago
Op-Ed: Why does the Pentagon give a helping hand to films like ‘Top Gun’? https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-05-30/top-gun-maverick-memorial-day-tom-cruise-pentagon-propaganda https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-05-30/top-gun-mav... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theaters_of_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theaters_of_War Pay No Attention to the G-Man Behind the Curtain https://www.theatlantic.com/membership/archive/2018/03/pay-no-attention-to-the-g-man-behind-the-curtain/555839/ https://www.theatlantic.com/membership/archive/2018/03/pay-n... In the ‘90s the U.S. Government Paid TV Networks to Weave “Anti-Drug” Messaging Into Their Plot Lines. Here Are the Worst Examples. https://www.columnblog.com/p/in-the-90s-the-us-government-paid https://www.columnblog.com/p/in-the-90s-the-us-government-pa... Education Dept. paid commentator to promote law https://web.archive.org/web/20100722051019/http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-01-06-williams-whitehouse_x.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20100722051019/http://www.usatod... https://www.gao.gov/products/b-305368 https://www.gao.gov/products/b-305368