4 ms·

These companies have hired focus groups, marketing experts, psychologists, and countless design teams to get people hooked on their platform. Are we really surp

by xyst 3y ago

These companies have hired focus groups, marketing experts, psychologists, and countless design teams to get people hooked on their platform. Are we really surprised? Multimillion dollar team vs primitive brain of human. Many people bound to lose and fall through. I think the problem is rooted in a large swath of society growing up in isolation. The past few decades has seen a sharp rise in suburban or exurb living (living in isolation), car centric transportation (traveling in isolation), and social media (socializing in isolation). High levels of partisanship in the states as well is not a coincidence. We have generations of children growing up playing video games in the suburbs because that’s all you can do from the moment you are born to the day you become an adult (or get a car).

hooande 3y ago
> These companies have hired focus groups, marketing experts, psychologists, and countless design teams to get people hooked on their platform. Are we really surprised? I don't think that this is the problem. From what I know, hackernews doesn't hire any marketing experts, psychologists or focus groups. It doesn't even support images. I was more addicted to this site than any other, despite the lack of psychological tricks. And there are many sites that DO employ full psychological warfare teams that I completely ignore. Tinder seemed fully committed to forcing repetitive user engagement. And I dropped that site after about two days, psychologists or not. If all it took to force engagement was a certain list of UI tricks, every funded social site would be able to do it. I don't think there's a single root cause or an off switch for social media. This phenomenon is here to stay, for better or worse. I think that we will adapt as a species but there's no going back.
- ben_w 3y ago
  Endless A/B testing will climb up some peak in the landscape of human psychology; that you and I are on a different peak may help a bit, but there are ways to find other peaks and money to be made in the attempt. (I'm apparently on peak "Idle Game", and thus benefited greatly from the end of Flash browser games freeing me from that pointless waste of time).
  - IggleSniggle 3y ago
    Oh my goodness how could I have forgotten that decade of my life until you mentioned it? Oh, right, yeah, that's how. Edit: I think my comment was lost in translation. What I meant was, "yes, this was such a phenomenon, and I experienced it too, and I marvel at the amount of time that I wasted in Idle games, and sympathize with others who are also lost in these Skinner boxes"
- branperr 3y ago
  There are definitely UI tricks used by pretty much everyone when applicable. For example, infinite scrolling is used to keep people’s attention. There are other dark patterns that exist as well
- ethanbond 3y ago
  “A lot of people are addicted to websites which employ armies of engineers and scientists to generate addiction” is not really addressed by “I am addicted to a site without those techniques.” Analogously, my addiction to Parmesan cheese doesn’t mean heroin isn’t that addictive (or intended to be addictive).
  - thfuran 3y ago
    I find it very unlikely that you're actually addicted to Parmesan.
o1y32 3y ago
Whenever I see the claim "the financial companies don't do actual work, they just make up money, but we software companies do" I cannot stop thinking about all the engineering that went into getting people spending more time on social media
throw_pm23 3y ago
It's not just the marketing groups but also peer pressure. Whenever I pointed out on HN that I don't use social media or smart phones as I find them a net negative, people jumped at it mockingly, saying this is the new "I don't have a TV" or argued that it is simply impossible, etc.
- IggleSniggle 3y ago
  How is HN not social media?
  - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
    Just rephrase what they said in your head as "I'm not on any major social media platforms, and I limit my time on HN" and we can avoid this conversation that happens every time we try to discuss social media or screen time on this site. Otherwise discussion on the topic is impossible, as one can always respond with "yea well you're on HN aren't you?!"
    - JacobThreeThree 3y ago
      Most people I know who tout the fact that they "don't have a TV" nevertheless watch Netflix, YouTube, Amazon Prime, etc. I think it's a valid point to question what people mean when they say they're not on social media, yet are posting on HN.
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        I think there are features that most people consider defining of social media, such as personalized feeds, following other people, etc. HN has none of those. As a result, I don't consider it "social media", I consider it a specialty news aggregator that has a robust comment section. Back when FB and the like were new, calling them "social media" was done to differentiate them from sites like HN.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
wrycoder 3y ago
Don’t most kids have bicycles? When I was a teen I used to bike an hour one way to visit my girlfriend. As a kid, I was really isolated - miles from the nearest children. I only saw kids at school. But, in high school, we moved inward to a suburb, and I did a lot of biking to see my friends.
- skyyler 3y ago
  >I did a lot of biking to see my friends. Online spaces for interaction seem to be leading to kids being able to "interact" with each other from afar. You don't need to ride your bike to Mark's house to play a game with Mark and his sister. You just load up whatever online game all three of you own. I'm not saying in-person interaction is completely dead to kids. I am starting to think the shopping mall as a hangout spot is dead to kids, though.
  - wrycoder 3y ago
    It’s a little boring to make out over the phone!
- micromacrofoot 3y ago
  I suspect that many parents these days would not be comfortable with their child biking anywhere for an hour if they're under 14 or so. In the US I have found that things have changed dramatically for kids over the past 20-30 years. Anecdotally I was walking half a mile to school in the second grade on my own. My nieces and nephews are the same age and aren't allowed to leave their yard (despite having cell phones!). There's also the question of "why" — kids today are adept at video calls and tend to play lots of video games (many of which only have online multiplayer modes anyway!). They're generally not spending a lot of time playing outside. Their parents are also spending more time inside. I'm sure there are a preponderance of reasons for the changes, but I've always suspected that the access to an infinite news cycle (e.g., some kid 2 hours away went missing last night) has made people overly cautious. This could be entirely anecdotal, but I feel like the world was a lot smaller for parents before the internet and this has altered perceptions (despite the fact that most places are actually safer in terms of violent crime rates than they used to be).
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by xyst 3y ago

hooande 3y ago

> These companies have hired focus groups, marketing experts, psychologists, and countless design teams to get people hooked on their platform. Are we really surprised? I don't think that this is the problem. From what I know, hackernews doesn't hire any marketing experts, psychologists or focus groups. It doesn't even support images. I was more addicted to this site than any other, despite the lack of psychological tricks. And there are many sites that DO employ full psychological warfare teams that I completely ignore. Tinder seemed fully committed to forcing repetitive user engagement. And I dropped that site after about two days, psychologists or not. If all it took to force engagement was a certain list of UI tricks, every funded social site would be able to do it. I don't think there's a single root cause or an off switch for social media. This phenomenon is here to stay, for better or worse. I think that we will adapt as a species but there's no going back.

ben_w 3y ago
Endless A/B testing will climb up some peak in the landscape of human psychology; that you and I are on a different peak may help a bit, but there are ways to find other peaks and money to be made in the attempt. (I'm apparently on peak "Idle Game", and thus benefited greatly from the end of Flash browser games freeing me from that pointless waste of time).
- IggleSniggle 3y ago
  Oh my goodness how could I have forgotten that decade of my life until you mentioned it? Oh, right, yeah, that's how. Edit: I think my comment was lost in translation. What I meant was, "yes, this was such a phenomenon, and I experienced it too, and I marvel at the amount of time that I wasted in Idle games, and sympathize with others who are also lost in these Skinner boxes"
branperr 3y ago
There are definitely UI tricks used by pretty much everyone when applicable. For example, infinite scrolling is used to keep people’s attention. There are other dark patterns that exist as well
ethanbond 3y ago
“A lot of people are addicted to websites which employ armies of engineers and scientists to generate addiction” is not really addressed by “I am addicted to a site without those techniques.” Analogously, my addiction to Parmesan cheese doesn’t mean heroin isn’t that addictive (or intended to be addictive).
- thfuran 3y ago
  I find it very unlikely that you're actually addicted to Parmesan.

o1y32 3y ago

Whenever I see the claim "the financial companies don't do actual work, they just make up money, but we software companies do" I cannot stop thinking about all the engineering that went into getting people spending more time on social media

throw_pm23 3y ago

It's not just the marketing groups but also peer pressure. Whenever I pointed out on HN that I don't use social media or smart phones as I find them a net negative, people jumped at it mockingly, saying this is the new "I don't have a TV" or argued that it is simply impossible, etc.

IggleSniggle 3y ago
How is HN not social media?
- DiggyJohnson 3y ago
  Just rephrase what they said in your head as "I'm not on any major social media platforms, and I limit my time on HN" and we can avoid this conversation that happens every time we try to discuss social media or screen time on this site. Otherwise discussion on the topic is impossible, as one can always respond with "yea well you're on HN aren't you?!"
  - JacobThreeThree 3y ago
    Most people I know who tout the fact that they "don't have a TV" nevertheless watch Netflix, YouTube, Amazon Prime, etc. I think it's a valid point to question what people mean when they say they're not on social media, yet are posting on HN.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      I think there are features that most people consider defining of social media, such as personalized feeds, following other people, etc. HN has none of those. As a result, I don't consider it "social media", I consider it a specialty news aggregator that has a robust comment section. Back when FB and the like were new, calling them "social media" was done to differentiate them from sites like HN.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

wrycoder 3y ago

Don’t most kids have bicycles? When I was a teen I used to bike an hour one way to visit my girlfriend. As a kid, I was really isolated - miles from the nearest children. I only saw kids at school. But, in high school, we moved inward to a suburb, and I did a lot of biking to see my friends.

skyyler 3y ago
>I did a lot of biking to see my friends. Online spaces for interaction seem to be leading to kids being able to "interact" with each other from afar. You don't need to ride your bike to Mark's house to play a game with Mark and his sister. You just load up whatever online game all three of you own. I'm not saying in-person interaction is completely dead to kids. I am starting to think the shopping mall as a hangout spot is dead to kids, though.
- wrycoder 3y ago
  It’s a little boring to make out over the phone!
micromacrofoot 3y ago
I suspect that many parents these days would not be comfortable with their child biking anywhere for an hour if they're under 14 or so. In the US I have found that things have changed dramatically for kids over the past 20-30 years. Anecdotally I was walking half a mile to school in the second grade on my own. My nieces and nephews are the same age and aren't allowed to leave their yard (despite having cell phones!). There's also the question of "why" — kids today are adept at video calls and tend to play lots of video games (many of which only have online multiplayer modes anyway!). They're generally not spending a lot of time playing outside. Their parents are also spending more time inside. I'm sure there are a preponderance of reasons for the changes, but I've always suspected that the access to an infinite news cycle (e.g., some kid 2 hours away went missing last night) has made people overly cautious. This could be entirely anecdotal, but I feel like the world was a lot smaller for parents before the internet and this has altered perceptions (despite the fact that most places are actually safer in terms of violent crime rates than they used to be).

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]