3 ms·

I think it depends a lot on how the people work together. If you're doing a lot of impromptu "meetings", pair programming, brainstorming sessions etc, then this

by mhd 15y ago

I think it depends a lot on how the people work together. If you're doing a lot of impromptu "meetings", pair programming, brainstorming sessions etc, then this setup is probably an advantage. Personally, I can cancel out most distractions by a large enough monitor and headphones, but get really awkward when someone is standing behind me or walking by. So I need to have my back to a wall, whether it's an open office or not. I think we all do agree that offices without fixed desks are a big no-no. Some companies tried to do that a while ago, where you just have a cart with your stuff and work where you're needed (with thin clients way back when, and laptops a bit later). Yuck.

packetslave 15y ago
Yes, but "impromptu meetings" are toxic for getting things done when you're coding. An interrupt-driven culture makes it a nightmare to get into a flow state and stay there without constantly having to context-switch because some jerk has to have an answer RIGHT NOW and can't be bothered to send email.
- mhd 15y ago
  Some teams benefit more from immediate responses than "flow state". If you're running a operation where there's lots of small features and design niggles, brainstorming them out with the rest of the team might be better than achieving perfect zanshin, but still having no idea, or doing 8 hours of back-and-forth intense coding then finding out that there's a standard library function or better algorithm that your co-worker could have told you hours ago. Granted, this would mostly apply to teams who are either very newbie-heavy or work on very small feature increments at a time - or both. And maybe some designers, but I'm not qualified to talk about that. For most other purposes, more isolated environments with a good tech solution for communication would be preferable (IRC, Basecamp, Jabbber etc.)
  - devs1010 15y ago
    Even then, you can keep communication via email or IM, just send a message to the person who may know, "hey, do we have any library for this, seems like we might", etc and they get back to you when they can, you don't have to have face to face to ask questions, as you said, mainly its important for newbies, but more experienced dev's should know when to ping someone even if the response won't be immediate.
philwelch 15y ago
> I think we all do agree that offices without fixed desks are a big no-no. Some companies tried to do that a while ago, where you just have a cart with your stuff and work where you're needed (with thin clients way back when, and laptops a bit later). Yuck. I'm curious why people feel this way. I've never worked in this kind of environment, but where I have worked, I've never actually had that much stuff at my desk or in the office. And I always felt like, while I could customize my workspace to work better for me, everything belonged to the company anyway so it would be silly to feel territorial about my workspace. Give me five minutes to adjust everything and I'd be ready to go at any desk.
- mhd 15y ago
  Sure, you're not the only one who doesn't have a problem with that, but quite a lot of those efforts were company-wide. It does make sense for consultants who are out of the office 90% of the time anyway. Why keep N offices for N people then? Your point about "everything belongs to the company anyway" is basically the gist of it: If you're shuffled around too often, you yourself might feel like company property. I would say that this is true for the majority of people, just like most of them are prone to "homesteading". The nesting instinct is quite primal… (And in relation to the original point of this thread, familiar, interruption-less environments make it easier for most people to focus.) One additional annoying point is the reason for this: Basically you've got two, either the one I mentioned above, where you've got a lot of empty offices due to consultants not in at all, or the company wants to turn everyone into in-house consultants. No fixed teams, quickly adding two new co-workers to a late project - we all know how well that works. Or one of the worst sins: Taking you out of your team because your job is done there for now, and instead of just idling along they'll just add you to another department, whether they need help or not. Cost saving without mercy and regard to basic human nature. One might argue that it could work if you restrict yourself to those with a suitable psychological profile, but I bet this will only result in false "nomads" who are just trying to act that way to avoid losing a job (or to get it in the first place).

by mhd 15y ago

packetslave 15y ago

Yes, but "impromptu meetings" are toxic for getting things done when you're coding. An interrupt-driven culture makes it a nightmare to get into a flow state and stay there without constantly having to context-switch because some jerk has to have an answer RIGHT NOW and can't be bothered to send email.

mhd 15y ago
Some teams benefit more from immediate responses than "flow state". If you're running a operation where there's lots of small features and design niggles, brainstorming them out with the rest of the team might be better than achieving perfect zanshin, but still having no idea, or doing 8 hours of back-and-forth intense coding then finding out that there's a standard library function or better algorithm that your co-worker could have told you hours ago. Granted, this would mostly apply to teams who are either very newbie-heavy or work on very small feature increments at a time - or both. And maybe some designers, but I'm not qualified to talk about that. For most other purposes, more isolated environments with a good tech solution for communication would be preferable (IRC, Basecamp, Jabbber etc.)
- devs1010 15y ago
  Even then, you can keep communication via email or IM, just send a message to the person who may know, "hey, do we have any library for this, seems like we might", etc and they get back to you when they can, you don't have to have face to face to ask questions, as you said, mainly its important for newbies, but more experienced dev's should know when to ping someone even if the response won't be immediate.

philwelch 15y ago

> I think we all do agree that offices without fixed desks are a big no-no. Some companies tried to do that a while ago, where you just have a cart with your stuff and work where you're needed (with thin clients way back when, and laptops a bit later). Yuck. I'm curious why people feel this way. I've never worked in this kind of environment, but where I have worked, I've never actually had that much stuff at my desk or in the office. And I always felt like, while I could customize my workspace to work better for me, everything belonged to the company anyway so it would be silly to feel territorial about my workspace. Give me five minutes to adjust everything and I'd be ready to go at any desk.

mhd 15y ago
Sure, you're not the only one who doesn't have a problem with that, but quite a lot of those efforts were company-wide. It does make sense for consultants who are out of the office 90% of the time anyway. Why keep N offices for N people then? Your point about "everything belongs to the company anyway" is basically the gist of it: If you're shuffled around too often, you yourself might feel like company property. I would say that this is true for the majority of people, just like most of them are prone to "homesteading". The nesting instinct is quite primal… (And in relation to the original point of this thread, familiar, interruption-less environments make it easier for most people to focus.) One additional annoying point is the reason for this: Basically you've got two, either the one I mentioned above, where you've got a lot of empty offices due to consultants not in at all, or the company wants to turn everyone into in-house consultants. No fixed teams, quickly adding two new co-workers to a late project - we all know how well that works. Or one of the worst sins: Taking you out of your team because your job is done there for now, and instead of just idling along they'll just add you to another department, whether they need help or not. Cost saving without mercy and regard to basic human nature. One might argue that it could work if you restrict yourself to those with a suitable psychological profile, but I bet this will only result in false "nomads" who are just trying to act that way to avoid losing a job (or to get it in the first place).