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> COVID19 literally killed people I knew because they were too stupid to mask up and/or vaccinate people. A fantastic example of the truth not mattering. Is a

> COVID19 literally killed people I knew because they were too stupid to mask up and/or vaccinate people. A fantastic example of the truth not mattering. Is a lion or just the wind? What difference does it make? Run either way! I put no effort into ensuring that it is true that masks are helpful, or if the vaccine would stave off the illness. Simply, the mental model of the world indicated that they posed no real harm in trying, so why not go for it? If it actually helped, great. If I wasted my time, also great! Who cares? I'm sure all of us have flaws in our mental model of the world that will cause us to do something we shouldn't in some circumstance, but sharing of truths do nothing to correct those flaws. It is not like the truth about COIVD-19 isn't out there, but obviously it didn't help those who suffered. > I'm also in the business of programming, which is largely in the business of truths. Funny, I am too and it is exceedingly rare to find anyone who goes beyond gut feeling. Understandably so, as that's how our mind evolved to function. In fact, programmers love to argue about which gut feeling is right.

dragontamer 3y ago
> A fantastic example of the truth not mattering. Is a lion or just the wind? What difference does it make? Run either way! We literally just had anti-mask protesters and anti-vaccine protesters take over one of the major political parties with major sway over a huge number of people's behavior (local municipalities, as well as large-scale behaviors of our society). At this point I think you're trolling me if you don't see why this is an important issue of our times. Despite these idiots injecting themselves with useless ivermectin, catching COVID19 and literally dying, I do care about their lives. Not only because of personal relationships, but also as a society they still play a role in the workforce, as fathers or mothers, or other sociological bonuses to our overall life. It is still a tragedy that they've basically killed themselves due to misinformation. ---------- There are other political issues of the now, and of the future, where the truth will also matter.
- randomdata 3y ago
  > We literally just had anti-mask protesters and anti-vaccine protesters take over one of the major political parties. We also, at one point, had top doctors letting it be known that cloth masks increase the chance of infection. Not an unreasonable thing to say as the 2015, if I recall correctly, study in hospitals shows that medical professionals wearing cloth masks were at greater risk of infection of disease over wearing no mask due to increased incidents of face touching. Not unreasonable, but not true, was it? Followup studies around COVID-19 in the general population found very different results. Now imagine if we got wrapped up in being concerned about what is "true". We'd be left thinking cloth masks are detrimental. But as we weren't concerned about what is true, we were willing to keep evaluating the situation. > if you don't see why this is an important issue of our times. As opposed to all the other times the Anti-Mask League showed up?
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    I'm talking about the simple crap. Like, does Ivermectin work at stopping COVID19? Answer: no. It never did, it never had a chance. It was studied first by the RECOVERY Trials and Dexamethasone was the first cheap ($20ish) drug found to be useful. All the bullshit with Ivermectin after RECOVERY trials was just that: bullshit and misinformation. Come on dude, its not so hard to see the misinformation littering our discussion space. And your avoidance of the _OBVIOUS_ problems to seed your argument is proof that you're in this for internet points rather than truthful discussion. There's obvious misinformation, and obvious untruths at play here. And people who want to pretend and muddy the waters. And I'm beginning to think you're one of those muddying the waters dishonest discussion people given how you're misleading this conversation. -------------- There's a set of honest discussion points that are in our culture. There's a set of dishonest, misinformation, misleading trolls in our culture. Are you honestly trying to deny this 2nd group of people's existence? That's all I'm trying to point out.
    - randomdata 3y ago
      > Like, does Ivermectin work? Answer: no. And what if you told me it did? What would change? The answer is nothing. Not getting wrapped up in what is true also means not getting wrapped up in what is false. It cuts both ways. Honestly, I don't know what these non-sequiturs are trying to serve. They have nothing to do with the discussion taking place. It seems like you just want to go on some weird political rant or to express your emotions in some strange way. A discussion has no place for either of those things.
      - dragontamer 3y ago
        Misinformation exists online. Trolls are creating misinformation and using it for political gain. That's my point. Because these trolls see political benefits in misleading people, they'll continue to do so, and continue to grow in power as they mislead large segments of the population. ------------ Truthful discussion is the only thing that can combat it. And *simple truths exist*. Despite your attempts at proving otherwise. This is important because when we talk about our online discussion spaces, like Reddit, Wikipedia, or Twitter, I'm evaluating them on how easy it is for the misinformation-trolls to win and bully themselves into an advantageous position, and how easy it is for the Truth to be gleaned (or at least, a community of truth-seekers to be developed).

dragontamer 3y ago

> A fantastic example of the truth not mattering. Is a lion or just the wind? What difference does it make? Run either way! We literally just had anti-mask protesters and anti-vaccine protesters take over one of the major political parties with major sway over a huge number of people's behavior (local municipalities, as well as large-scale behaviors of our society). At this point I think you're trolling me if you don't see why this is an important issue of our times. Despite these idiots injecting themselves with useless ivermectin, catching COVID19 and literally dying, I do care about their lives. Not only because of personal relationships, but also as a society they still play a role in the workforce, as fathers or mothers, or other sociological bonuses to our overall life. It is still a tragedy that they've basically killed themselves due to misinformation. ---------- There are other political issues of the now, and of the future, where the truth will also matter.

randomdata 3y ago
> We literally just had anti-mask protesters and anti-vaccine protesters take over one of the major political parties. We also, at one point, had top doctors letting it be known that cloth masks increase the chance of infection. Not an unreasonable thing to say as the 2015, if I recall correctly, study in hospitals shows that medical professionals wearing cloth masks were at greater risk of infection of disease over wearing no mask due to increased incidents of face touching. Not unreasonable, but not true, was it? Followup studies around COVID-19 in the general population found very different results. Now imagine if we got wrapped up in being concerned about what is "true". We'd be left thinking cloth masks are detrimental. But as we weren't concerned about what is true, we were willing to keep evaluating the situation. > if you don't see why this is an important issue of our times. As opposed to all the other times the Anti-Mask League showed up?
- dragontamer 3y ago
  I'm talking about the simple crap. Like, does Ivermectin work at stopping COVID19? Answer: no. It never did, it never had a chance. It was studied first by the RECOVERY Trials and Dexamethasone was the first cheap ($20ish) drug found to be useful. All the bullshit with Ivermectin after RECOVERY trials was just that: bullshit and misinformation. Come on dude, its not so hard to see the misinformation littering our discussion space. And your avoidance of the _OBVIOUS_ problems to seed your argument is proof that you're in this for internet points rather than truthful discussion. There's obvious misinformation, and obvious untruths at play here. And people who want to pretend and muddy the waters. And I'm beginning to think you're one of those muddying the waters dishonest discussion people given how you're misleading this conversation. -------------- There's a set of honest discussion points that are in our culture. There's a set of dishonest, misinformation, misleading trolls in our culture. Are you honestly trying to deny this 2nd group of people's existence? That's all I'm trying to point out.
  - randomdata 3y ago
    > Like, does Ivermectin work? Answer: no. And what if you told me it did? What would change? The answer is nothing. Not getting wrapped up in what is true also means not getting wrapped up in what is false. It cuts both ways. Honestly, I don't know what these non-sequiturs are trying to serve. They have nothing to do with the discussion taking place. It seems like you just want to go on some weird political rant or to express your emotions in some strange way. A discussion has no place for either of those things.
    - dragontamer 3y ago
      Misinformation exists online. Trolls are creating misinformation and using it for political gain. That's my point. Because these trolls see political benefits in misleading people, they'll continue to do so, and continue to grow in power as they mislead large segments of the population. ------------ Truthful discussion is the only thing that can combat it. And *simple truths exist*. Despite your attempts at proving otherwise. This is important because when we talk about our online discussion spaces, like Reddit, Wikipedia, or Twitter, I'm evaluating them on how easy it is for the misinformation-trolls to win and bully themselves into an advantageous position, and how easy it is for the Truth to be gleaned (or at least, a community of truth-seekers to be developed).