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Other than price (ie, too popular!) I don't think those are significant issues in most US cities I've lived in. It's probably not a coincidence that 90percent o

Other than price (ie, too popular!) I don't think those are significant issues in most US cities I've lived in. It's probably not a coincidence that 90percent of the time someone talks about these kinds of issues they always have to use the same one example, San Francisco. The east coast is a lot more livable I guess? Winters are not that bad but the fear of them seems to keep the Californians away and keep things somewhat affordable despite access to good jobs. My biggest complaint is the schools -- as soon as you have kids you won't be willing to live in more affordable neighborhoods you would have been ok with previously (or else resort to private, so you pay either way in tuition or rent) -- but truth be told, great suburban school districts are expensive too so there's not really that big a difference anyway there. In the end all you really give up for city life is the grassy yard, and for many people it's worth it.

shortrounddev2 3y ago
Most americans prefer to live outside of cities: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/12/16/americans-are-less-likely-than-before-covid-19-to-want-to-live-in-cities-more-likely-to-prefer-suburbs https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/12/16/america... You can attribute the change in this article to covid, but they were already pretty unpopular before then. Suburbs are the plurality choice among Americans, with cities coming in last of 3. A great deal of people who live in cities only do so because they have to
- xcrunner529 3y ago
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- acdha 3y ago
  One big confound here is pricing. It’s easy to look at people moving into suburbs and concluding that’s a preference other than “can afford to live there”. The main takeaway I have is that post-pandemic no municipality should be taking things for granted. The presence of a large business downtown will no longer guarantee demand for residences, restaurants, etc. so cities need to focus on building the things which make them appealing (community, culture, sustainability, etc.) and addressing the problems which make people leave. If your downtown is a mess of highways and parking to serve suburban commuters, even fewer people are going to want to pay a premium for housing so their taxes can subsidize those commuters rather than their neighborhood. The same applies to suburbs: all of that car infrastructure is really expensive and most places don’t have taxes high enough to maintain it. As things age, blocking density and transit is going to lead to higher taxes and people leaving, especially if the nearby cities are smart about adding housing. If people are only living in your suburb because it’s where they can afford a house in commuting distance, telework and transit improvements are going to encourage people to leave - they’re not sticking around for the nightlife at Applebees #7649.
  - shortrounddev2 3y ago
    I agree with basically everything you said > If people are only living in your suburb because it’s where they can afford a house in commuting distance, telework and transit improvements are going to encourage people to leave - they’re not sticking around for the nightlife at Applebees #7649. I think that you will find people moving out even further to even more remote suburbs if they are no longer required to be in an office in the city. Another thing that's lost in the conversation is the amount of commercial real estate in the suburbs. Since the 1970s, a huge chunk of commercial real estate has sprawled its way into the suburbs: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/office-sprawl-the-evolving-geography-of-business/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/office-sprawl-the-evolvin... > Suburbs now contain the majority of office space in many of the country’s top metropolitan office markets, according to this survey. Before 1980, central cities dominated the office market, but over the last two decades, office space has become much more dispersed. A new urban form, an “edgeless city,” is emerging. I take my home of Northern Virginia as an example: many people assume that those living way out in Loudoun County (where the DC metro has a station) are living there for the cost while working in DC. In fact, very few people I know there worked in DC. Rather, they worked in a nearby suburban town (Reston, Chantilly, Fair Oaks, Tysons Corner, Herndon, etc.) and lived in a suburban town. You get this huge amount of suburban sprawl which is only tangentially related to the main city which it is attached to. Once those offices crumble, I wonder how it will reshape the geography of suburbs
    - acdha 3y ago
      Oh, totally agreed on direction not being fixed. I live in Takoma DC and have noticed the general trend is against the boring bedroom communities - some people moved closer in to DC or one of the smaller but actually urban cities for amenities/culture, or much further out than you’d want for a daily car commute for rural recreation, family member’s business, etc. because MARC/VRE a couple of times a month is a much better commute than daily drives were. My main thought is that a lot of urban planners have been phoning it in and are going to have to figure out what gives their area something a neighboring municipality can’t easily match now that “10 minutes less driving” isn’t as persuasive.

shortrounddev2 3y ago

Most americans prefer to live outside of cities: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/12/16/americans-are-less-likely-than-before-covid-19-to-want-to-live-in-cities-more-likely-to-prefer-suburbs https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/12/16/america... You can attribute the change in this article to covid, but they were already pretty unpopular before then. Suburbs are the plurality choice among Americans, with cities coming in last of 3. A great deal of people who live in cities only do so because they have to

xcrunner529 3y ago
[dead]
acdha 3y ago
One big confound here is pricing. It’s easy to look at people moving into suburbs and concluding that’s a preference other than “can afford to live there”. The main takeaway I have is that post-pandemic no municipality should be taking things for granted. The presence of a large business downtown will no longer guarantee demand for residences, restaurants, etc. so cities need to focus on building the things which make them appealing (community, culture, sustainability, etc.) and addressing the problems which make people leave. If your downtown is a mess of highways and parking to serve suburban commuters, even fewer people are going to want to pay a premium for housing so their taxes can subsidize those commuters rather than their neighborhood. The same applies to suburbs: all of that car infrastructure is really expensive and most places don’t have taxes high enough to maintain it. As things age, blocking density and transit is going to lead to higher taxes and people leaving, especially if the nearby cities are smart about adding housing. If people are only living in your suburb because it’s where they can afford a house in commuting distance, telework and transit improvements are going to encourage people to leave - they’re not sticking around for the nightlife at Applebees #7649.
- shortrounddev2 3y ago
  I agree with basically everything you said > If people are only living in your suburb because it’s where they can afford a house in commuting distance, telework and transit improvements are going to encourage people to leave - they’re not sticking around for the nightlife at Applebees #7649. I think that you will find people moving out even further to even more remote suburbs if they are no longer required to be in an office in the city. Another thing that's lost in the conversation is the amount of commercial real estate in the suburbs. Since the 1970s, a huge chunk of commercial real estate has sprawled its way into the suburbs: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/office-sprawl-the-evolving-geography-of-business/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/office-sprawl-the-evolvin... > Suburbs now contain the majority of office space in many of the country’s top metropolitan office markets, according to this survey. Before 1980, central cities dominated the office market, but over the last two decades, office space has become much more dispersed. A new urban form, an “edgeless city,” is emerging. I take my home of Northern Virginia as an example: many people assume that those living way out in Loudoun County (where the DC metro has a station) are living there for the cost while working in DC. In fact, very few people I know there worked in DC. Rather, they worked in a nearby suburban town (Reston, Chantilly, Fair Oaks, Tysons Corner, Herndon, etc.) and lived in a suburban town. You get this huge amount of suburban sprawl which is only tangentially related to the main city which it is attached to. Once those offices crumble, I wonder how it will reshape the geography of suburbs
  - acdha 3y ago
    Oh, totally agreed on direction not being fixed. I live in Takoma DC and have noticed the general trend is against the boring bedroom communities - some people moved closer in to DC or one of the smaller but actually urban cities for amenities/culture, or much further out than you’d want for a daily car commute for rural recreation, family member’s business, etc. because MARC/VRE a couple of times a month is a much better commute than daily drives were. My main thought is that a lot of urban planners have been phoning it in and are going to have to figure out what gives their area something a neighboring municipality can’t easily match now that “10 minutes less driving” isn’t as persuasive.