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How can you legally threaten someone and not face consequences, but if you threaten someone with physical violence you can go to jail?
by seiferteric 3y ago
How can you legally threaten someone and not face consequences, but if you threaten someone with physical violence you can go to jail?
- tantalor 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence
- dundarious 3y agoYour sentiment is silly. In general, with important caveats I will not state here, you can of course voice a threat to do an action that is legal (file a lawsuit), and may not voice a threat to do an action that is illegal (physical assault).
- seiferteric 3y agoI'm not even suggesting it has to happen at a legal level, but perhaps at a professional level, I would think any lawyer writing baseless threatening letters to people should be subject to losing there license.
- kube-system 3y agoWriting a demand letter that leans in favor of your client's interests is not only okay, it is the standard course of action for a civil dispute. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/demand_letter https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/demand_letter
- seiferteric 3y agoPerhaps they shouldn't. If we lived in a world where lawyers were more cautions about what they attached there name to out of concern for losing their license we would probably be better off. Less bullying by corporations with lots of money etc. No problems with demand letters for legitimate issues that are well supported by evidence though.
- gruez 3y ago>If we lived in a world where lawyers were more cautions about what they attached there name to out of concern for losing their license we would probably be better off. That's already the case. Lawyers can be disbarred for filing frivolous lawsuits.
- seiferteric 3y agoI'm aware, and yet this letter was written and signed by a lawyer who probably knew better and will likely face no consequences.
- pseg134 3y agoYou seem to have the facts of this case incorrect. They definitely broke the law by hacking this app without prior authorization. You may disagree with the law but I don’t understand how you made the leap to calling for the suspension of specific attorneys.
- dundarious 3y agoI'm in favor of the work done by the security researchers, and the defense offered by the EFF. However, your first comment was such a surface level understanding, and I wanted to bring it back to reality. The general form of such a "legal threat" (threat relating to the law) is perfectly reasonable, normal, and legal (as in, conforming to the law). It's a standard part of practicing law. However, in this specific case, they do appear to have broken one professional rule, regarding the threat of criminal prosecution conditional on a civil demand. Aside from that one professional rule, the Fizz/Buzz letter was probably perfectly technically accurate. Whether the DA would take up the case, I doubt, but that's up to their discretion/advice from the DoJ, not based on the legal code. I think Fizz/Buzz were incredibly foolish to send such a letter, as the researchers were essentially good samaritans being punished for their good deed (probably only because customers don't like it when supposedly professional organizations are found to be in need of such basic good deeds from good samaritans, and Fizz/Buzz would rather punish the good samaritans instead of "suffering" the "embarrassment" of public knowledge).
- 3y ago
- kjjw 3y ago[flagged]
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- valbaca 3y agoIf it's a threat, then that's literally blackmail. It's only legal to use the legal action, period. Once you pull in a THREAT, it becomes blackmail/extortion.
- dundarious 3y agoA cease and desist letter is a "threat" and is not illegal/blackmail/extortion.
- hnfong 3y agoIt's not a cease and desist letter. It's an extortion attempt to put pressure the alleged hackers to sign a non-disclosure agreement. It's kind of a tricky gray area where similar demands might be legal, but I do think in this case it should be illegal.
- dundarious 3y agoDoesn't matter, I was just using it as an example to disprove the silly point that "threat=blackmail=illegal", > If it's a threat, then that's literally blackmail.
- gruez 3y agoIANAL, but: 1. threatening violence is explicitly a crime 2. at a higher level, threatening violence is a crime because the underlying act (committing violence) is also a crime. threatening to do a legal act is largely legal. it's not illegal to threaten reporting to the authorities, for instance.
- seiferteric 3y agoSeems like legal terrorism.
- kube-system 3y agoOnly for uses of the word 'terrorism' so hyperbolic as to be meaningless.
- seiferteric 3y agoJust pointing out the absurdity of it. I would much rather get punched in the face than serve 20 years in prison, but it is illegal to threaten the former, but perfectly fine to threaten the latter.
- gruez 3y ago>I would much rather get punched in the face than serve 20 years in prison, but it is illegal to threaten the former, but perfectly fine to threaten the latter. How about you don't do the action that makes you punishable with 20 years in prison? On a more practical level, if someone is breaking into your house, should it be illegal to tell them to stop, on pain of you calling the police which presumably would cause them to be incarcerated?
- seiferteric 3y agoNo, because it would be legitimate? Just like it is legitimate to use force to stop someone from hurting you...
- vannevar 3y agoIANL, but in some jurisdictions and circumstances I understand that threatening someone with criminal prosecution can itself constitute the crime of extortion or abuse of process.
- charonn0 3y agoIt's perfectly legal to threaten to do something that's perfectly legal.
- seiferteric 3y agoPerfectly legal, but unethical. The motives are clear, they want to threaten/bully someone into silence who has information that could hurt their business. I don't think lawyers that engage in this behavior should be allowed to practice law, that's all.