5 ms·

>Here's my take: you don't really own something if you can't repair it. I agree, however ; e-bikes ARE different from BIKES. I have been a daily biker for dec

>Here's my take: you don't really own something if you can't repair it. I agree, however ; e-bikes ARE different from BIKES. I have been a daily biker for decades. (I literally just rode 5 miles ten minutes ago) - I have worked in bike shops, my first design in Autocad Class in 1990 was a bike, I just sold my original 1986 Gary Fisher (the inventor of mtn bikes)(controversial) -- blah blah, so I have SOME bike cred.. - I have a current e-bike that is a modern awesome thing, and I love everything about it. An Orbea Rise H30 - I love it, but it has flaws, and ALL ebikes have THE SAME FLAW. == THEY REQUIRE A POWER GRID TO EXIST == THEY REQUIRE A BATTERY RELIANT ON A GLOBAL SUPPLY CHAIN THEY DO NOT PROVIDE A MECHANISM FOR LONG HAUL CHARGING (hauling a solar panel capable trailer/pannier/whatever that can adequately recharge off-grid, such as in the Yukon) THEY CANNOT BE SUBMERGED IN WATER THEY REQUIRE A POWERBRICK THE SIZE OF YOUR FANNY PACK THEY HAVE A FLIMSY 'SEAL' TO COVER THE POWER PORT - if that breaks off (twig, brick, tree or foot) - your F'd SEE: SUBMERSION. THEIR SUPPLY CHAINS ARE FAR MORE COMPLEX THE MOTORS ARE FROM ALL OVER THE PLACE - AND QUESTIONABLE MFRs DEALER RELATIONSHIPS SUCK (orbea and mikes bikes parted ways, santa cruz and others are bidding btwn various bike vendors, and a bunch of other financial complexities in the bike industry - mikes started out in marin area as a "youre local bike buddy" and now they are fuly in the MBA corporate quagmire of catering to their market balanced by their own economics... Vendor hostility and preferential treatments abound (just like any industry) But the majority of bike frames come from Taiwan, and the high end components are from majorly Japan, Italy, France, Germany, CHINA - and I would put US at same level technically, but a tier 2 on prestige. (I have had people ask me if the e-bike motor was from china, and if so - no-buy. They only want Japanese (shimano) or German (bosch) -- no random china... But what I find odd, is not the motor - but the battery... THE BATTERY INDUSTRY IS THE PROBLEM (A, AA, AAA, C, D (why no B) -- (the battery industry is the biggest threat to global anything) Where the heck am I to get a battery for an ebick thats custom molded to my stem in my 100 year old bike? But can I pedal my stupid legs through the ruins of MIT on a bike I made from BAMBOO? Yep... Build me a battery from the rubble of your lab? -- If you were at all aware of the supply chain shortage of bikes in the pandemic, I did some research on that and found a lot of details on whom were to control the supply of bikes to the US (most went east coast (size of "market on east coast" - vs, the value of supply on bikes on the west coast -- (this is anecdotal, but the west coast spends more on bikes, but the east coast is higher volume due to pop dense) Anyway... Let me see if I can find that write up on the supply chain...

tzs 3y ago
> (A, AA, AAA, C, D (why no B) No B now because very few people use battery powered vacuum tubes any more. B batteries were mainly used for vacuum tube plate voltage. I remember in the early '70s as a kid building a Radio Shack one tube radio kit [1] and using a Radio Shack 22.5 V B battery [2]. I think that was the last time I ever encountered a B battery. By the '70s tubes were on the way out in consumer electronics. On that page I linked with the Radio Shack kits there are 6 radios and only one of them uses a tube. [1] http://my.core.com/~sparktron/pbox.html http://my.core.com/~sparktron/pbox.html [2] https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/1970_radioshack_catalog.html?fb3d-page=126 https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/1970_radioshack_...
AtlasBarfed 3y ago
A bit unhinged, but whatevs: THEY REQUIRE A POWER GRID TO EXIST: no they don't, solar panel if this is that important to you. THEY REQUIRE A BATTERY RELIANT ON A GLOBAL SUPPLY CHAIN: Tesla absolutely manufactures batteries in the USA, and virtually every major economy now recognizes national battery manufacturing ability is a national security issue. Lithium sources exist domestically. Sodium ion chemistries as good as LFP used in the current gen of ebikes is in mass production. Sulfur chemistries will probably come in 5 years. THEY DO NOT PROVIDE A MECHANISM FOR LONG HAUL CHARGING: Uhhhhh.... okay, there are people that have made "charging trailers" for ebikes and don't even need to pedal. If this very fringe requirement is necessary, do that. You can't even bike into the Yukon wilderness FYI, where ... all of civilization is lacking. THEY CANNOT BE SUBMERGED IN WATER: ok, neither can cars, etc. Yes, don't throw your vehicles in water. THEY HAVE A FLIMSY 'SEAL' TO COVER THE POWER PORT - if that breaks off (twig, brick, tree or foot) - your F'd SEE: SUBMERSION. :: semilegitimate long term parts replacement concern I guess, but ... probably DIY'able. THEIR SUPPLY CHAINS ARE FAR MORE COMPLEX: Bikes have frames, handlebars, seats, brakes, cranks, chains, derailleurs, cogsets, wheels, hubs, rims, spokes, and all are very frequently sourced from companies all over the world. Adding "motor, battery" to that isn't some tipping point of complexity. Compared to an ICE ... anything (lawnmower, etc), ebikes are very simple. THE MOTORS ARE FROM ALL OVER THE PLACE - AND QUESTIONABLE MFRs: Yeah.... there is a bit of concern about disposable electronics here. But if enough of one brand is made, then the junkyard strategy of finding a crashed/broken second model and cannibalizing works here. Also, most electric motors aren't perfectly manufactured to application, they are of a more general spec (one of the advantages of electric drivetrains). So if you want to swap out the motor... probably can. DEALER RELATIONSHIPS SUCK: it's a wildly evolving marketplace with a potential customer base in the billions. "Where the heck am I to get a battery for an ebick thats custom molded to my stem in my 100 year old bike?" --> likely you'll slap in a battery that is about 1/3 the size and 3x the range. If you want to, you'll figure it out. Current batteries are pretty standardized in form factor and spec, even in the EV space (1865, 2170,4680) .... EVs are fundamentally simple: battery, motor. I think there will be an explosion of people that get back to knowing how to do basic repair and adaptation on electric motors as part of the EV revolution. I really like the idea of a front or rear motor wheel that you slapped into a regular bike, but in-frame motors are probably cheaper to put in / design in the beginning and more plug and play for consumers. One of the beauties of ebikes is that if the battery fails ... you just bike without power to get home. The cost for these will rapidly plummet in the coming years to probably $500 or so. Tire flats are a bigger concern than anything.

tzs 3y ago

> (A, AA, AAA, C, D (why no B) No B now because very few people use battery powered vacuum tubes any more. B batteries were mainly used for vacuum tube plate voltage. I remember in the early '70s as a kid building a Radio Shack one tube radio kit [1] and using a Radio Shack 22.5 V B battery [2]. I think that was the last time I ever encountered a B battery. By the '70s tubes were on the way out in consumer electronics. On that page I linked with the Radio Shack kits there are 6 radios and only one of them uses a tube. [1] http://my.core.com/~sparktron/pbox.html http://my.core.com/~sparktron/pbox.html [2] https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/1970_radioshack_catalog.html?fb3d-page=126 https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/1970_radioshack_...

AtlasBarfed 3y ago

A bit unhinged, but whatevs: THEY REQUIRE A POWER GRID TO EXIST: no they don't, solar panel if this is that important to you. THEY REQUIRE A BATTERY RELIANT ON A GLOBAL SUPPLY CHAIN: Tesla absolutely manufactures batteries in the USA, and virtually every major economy now recognizes national battery manufacturing ability is a national security issue. Lithium sources exist domestically. Sodium ion chemistries as good as LFP used in the current gen of ebikes is in mass production. Sulfur chemistries will probably come in 5 years. THEY DO NOT PROVIDE A MECHANISM FOR LONG HAUL CHARGING: Uhhhhh.... okay, there are people that have made "charging trailers" for ebikes and don't even need to pedal. If this very fringe requirement is necessary, do that. You can't even bike into the Yukon wilderness FYI, where ... all of civilization is lacking. THEY CANNOT BE SUBMERGED IN WATER: ok, neither can cars, etc. Yes, don't throw your vehicles in water. THEY HAVE A FLIMSY 'SEAL' TO COVER THE POWER PORT - if that breaks off (twig, brick, tree or foot) - your F'd SEE: SUBMERSION. :: semilegitimate long term parts replacement concern I guess, but ... probably DIY'able. THEIR SUPPLY CHAINS ARE FAR MORE COMPLEX: Bikes have frames, handlebars, seats, brakes, cranks, chains, derailleurs, cogsets, wheels, hubs, rims, spokes, and all are very frequently sourced from companies all over the world. Adding "motor, battery" to that isn't some tipping point of complexity. Compared to an ICE ... anything (lawnmower, etc), ebikes are very simple. THE MOTORS ARE FROM ALL OVER THE PLACE - AND QUESTIONABLE MFRs: Yeah.... there is a bit of concern about disposable electronics here. But if enough of one brand is made, then the junkyard strategy of finding a crashed/broken second model and cannibalizing works here. Also, most electric motors aren't perfectly manufactured to application, they are of a more general spec (one of the advantages of electric drivetrains). So if you want to swap out the motor... probably can. DEALER RELATIONSHIPS SUCK: it's a wildly evolving marketplace with a potential customer base in the billions. "Where the heck am I to get a battery for an ebick thats custom molded to my stem in my 100 year old bike?" --> likely you'll slap in a battery that is about 1/3 the size and 3x the range. If you want to, you'll figure it out. Current batteries are pretty standardized in form factor and spec, even in the EV space (1865, 2170,4680) .... EVs are fundamentally simple: battery, motor. I think there will be an explosion of people that get back to knowing how to do basic repair and adaptation on electric motors as part of the EV revolution. I really like the idea of a front or rear motor wheel that you slapped into a regular bike, but in-frame motors are probably cheaper to put in / design in the beginning and more plug and play for consumers. One of the beauties of ebikes is that if the battery fails ... you just bike without power to get home. The cost for these will rapidly plummet in the coming years to probably $500 or so. Tire flats are a bigger concern than anything.