4 ms·

Nothing too surprising, you either get a vaccine to get some immunity or get infected first risking more severe infection to get some immunity.

by m3kw9 3y ago

lockhouse 3y ago
Not even that, the vaccines don’t prevent infection, so at this point nearly everyone has some degree of natural immunity to COVID.
- taeric 3y ago
  Careful there, past infections also do not prevent infection. There is no sterilizing path for corona viruses, at the moment.
  - lockhouse 3y ago
    My point is that the vaccines abilities were oversold and underwhelmed people with their efficacy. This and several other policy missteps have severely undermined people’s trust regarding public health institutions.
    - taeric 3y ago
      Probably true, though most things in life are oversold. Including how well a past infection will help you out. :D I don't want to demand that we listen to experts, but I do regret people seem to have expected experts to never be wrong. And the current culture has gotten to where admitting a mistake is literally the worst thing you can do for a political stance. :(
      - lockhouse 3y ago
        The problem is that some of these policy decisions weren’t “mistakes”, they were deliberate politically motivated decisions.
        taeric 3y ago
        I'm vaguely curious on which ones you mean. Especially with regards to the vaccines, the data is pretty overwhelming that they were a net good. The charts that were showing hospitalization/deaths of vaccinated versus not were fairly conclusive. Did they live up to some of the initial hype about them? I don't actually know. The pipe dream that many were saying of a sterilizing vaccine were always a distant hope.
        lockhouse 3y ago
        I’m mostly talking about the partial lockdowns where only specific categories of businesses or employees were considered essential. Many of these designations were arbitrary at best and politically motivated at worst.
        Arainach 3y ago
        Please cite your sources here. Lockdowns were effective. 1) Lacking a nationalized infrastructure to deliver food, utilities, and healthcare, some businesses are clearly essential 2) It is impossible to have unanimous consensus on what "essential" means 3) In some areas, businesses are not tightly scoped - the primary source of food for a neighborhood may also sell non-food items. 4) Even the definition of "essential" cannot be tightly defined - are manufacturers of spare infrastructure components essential? What about their suppliers? What about the contractor who refills their coffee machine? Decisions had to be made, and administrators largely made the best decisions with the information available to them.
        tdhz77 3y ago
        Programmer logic leads some to the libertarian path. Not everything is a zero sum game. Life is messy and it’s not always governments fault. Getting it right more than wrong saved countless lives. You can’t quantify the amount of lives saved.
    - pupppet 3y ago
      They were sold as a means to keep you out of the hospital and that’s exactly what they did. Only the alt-right spun it as a cure so they could also merrily point out to everyone when that didn’t come true.
      - peteradio 3y ago
        No, regular folks weren't so eager to get a new vaccine and were miffed to suffer threats over it.
        pupppet 3y ago
        Regular folk pushing sick people out of the hospital because they got a completely avoidable bad case of COVID were a threat to everyone else.
        peteradio 3y ago
        You could make this argument about anything but for some reason it was crucial in forcing new shots on an unwilling population.
        pupppet 3y ago
        Anything? Please cite the previous pandemic we didn't encourage vaccinations.
        peteradio 3y ago
        Pandemics over but I still can't get some jobs without the shot.
      - lockhouse 3y ago
        Joe Biden himself said in a public speech that you will not get COVID if you get the vaccine. So no, that is not alt-right spin as you put it. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/one-year-biden-said-not-covid-if-vaccinations https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/one-year-biden-said-...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
cm2187 3y ago
[flagged]
- jeezfrk 3y ago
  that's a lie. no symptoms and no infectivity is precisely what vaccines gave. vaccines do not function like a benedryl.
- purpleblue 3y ago
  Wow. This is 100% false and misinformation. The initial vaccine was absolutely tested for infection and was based on infection rates, not based on "severity of symptoms." They changed the narrative after it was clear that vaccination did not provide protection from infection from variants but did maintain protection from severe symptoms.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - malfist 3y ago
    "they" didn't change the narrative. No vaccine prevents an infection. None. Zero. Never happens. The best a vaccine can do is train your immune system to identify and react to the infectious agent before it gains enough of a foothold to impact you. Often, especially if you've been vaccinated with the specific strain that infected you, it can do this before you notice you've been infected. Practically giving you an immunity, but not truly, you still got infected and your immune system still fought it off. For viruses though it's a different story. Viruses mutate, the strain you got vaccinated against may not be the one that enters your body, but the vaccine means your immune system can mount an effective response. In these cases, it significantly reduces risk of hospitalizations and death from the vaccine, but does not mean you won't have some effects from the virus.
    - purpleblue 3y ago
      This is another anti-science post trying to spread misinformation about how vaccines work. I suggest you educate yourself more on how all this works before posting more misinformation. > No vaccine prevents an infection. None. Zero. Never happens. As quoted from the CDC: "A new CDC study provides strong evidence that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective in preventing SARS-CoV-2 infections in real-world conditions among health care personnel, first responders, and other essential workers." https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vaccines.html#:~:text=CDC%20Newsroom%20Releases-,CDC%20Real%2DWorld%20Study%20Confirms%20Protective,of%20mRNA%20COVID%2D19%20Vaccines&text=A%20new%20CDC%20study%20provides,responders%2C%20and%20other%20essential%20workers https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vacci.... Here is your entire post in case you try to change it: >"they" didn't change the narrative. >No vaccine prevents an infection. None. Zero. Never happens. >The best a vaccine can do is train your immune system to identify and react to the infectious agent before it gains enough of a foothold to impact you. Often, especially if you've been vaccinated with the specific strain that infected you, it can do this before you notice you've been infected. Practically giving you an immunity, but not truly, you still got infected and your immune system still fought it off. >For viruses though it's a different story. Viruses mutate, the strain you got vaccinated against may not be the one that enters your body, but the vaccine means your immune system can mount an effective response. In these cases, it significantly reduces risk of hospitalizations and death from the vaccine, but does not mean you won't have some effects from the virus.

Nothing too surprising, you either get a vaccine to get some immunity or get infected first risking more severe infection to get some immunity.

by m3kw9 3y ago

Nothing too surprising, you either get a vaccine to get some immunity or get infected first risking more severe infection to get some immunity.

lockhouse 3y ago

Not even that, the vaccines don’t prevent infection, so at this point nearly everyone has some degree of natural immunity to COVID.

taeric 3y ago
Careful there, past infections also do not prevent infection. There is no sterilizing path for corona viruses, at the moment.
- lockhouse 3y ago
  My point is that the vaccines abilities were oversold and underwhelmed people with their efficacy. This and several other policy missteps have severely undermined people’s trust regarding public health institutions.
  - taeric 3y ago
    Probably true, though most things in life are oversold. Including how well a past infection will help you out. :D I don't want to demand that we listen to experts, but I do regret people seem to have expected experts to never be wrong. And the current culture has gotten to where admitting a mistake is literally the worst thing you can do for a political stance. :(
    - lockhouse 3y ago
      The problem is that some of these policy decisions weren’t “mistakes”, they were deliberate politically motivated decisions.
      - taeric 3y ago
        I'm vaguely curious on which ones you mean. Especially with regards to the vaccines, the data is pretty overwhelming that they were a net good. The charts that were showing hospitalization/deaths of vaccinated versus not were fairly conclusive. Did they live up to some of the initial hype about them? I don't actually know. The pipe dream that many were saying of a sterilizing vaccine were always a distant hope.
        lockhouse 3y ago
        I’m mostly talking about the partial lockdowns where only specific categories of businesses or employees were considered essential. Many of these designations were arbitrary at best and politically motivated at worst.
        Arainach 3y ago
        Please cite your sources here. Lockdowns were effective. 1) Lacking a nationalized infrastructure to deliver food, utilities, and healthcare, some businesses are clearly essential 2) It is impossible to have unanimous consensus on what "essential" means 3) In some areas, businesses are not tightly scoped - the primary source of food for a neighborhood may also sell non-food items. 4) Even the definition of "essential" cannot be tightly defined - are manufacturers of spare infrastructure components essential? What about their suppliers? What about the contractor who refills their coffee machine? Decisions had to be made, and administrators largely made the best decisions with the information available to them.
        tdhz77 3y ago
        Programmer logic leads some to the libertarian path. Not everything is a zero sum game. Life is messy and it’s not always governments fault. Getting it right more than wrong saved countless lives. You can’t quantify the amount of lives saved.
  - pupppet 3y ago
    They were sold as a means to keep you out of the hospital and that’s exactly what they did. Only the alt-right spun it as a cure so they could also merrily point out to everyone when that didn’t come true.
    - peteradio 3y ago
      No, regular folks weren't so eager to get a new vaccine and were miffed to suffer threats over it.
      - pupppet 3y ago
        Regular folk pushing sick people out of the hospital because they got a completely avoidable bad case of COVID were a threat to everyone else.
        peteradio 3y ago
        You could make this argument about anything but for some reason it was crucial in forcing new shots on an unwilling population.
        pupppet 3y ago
        Anything? Please cite the previous pandemic we didn't encourage vaccinations.
        peteradio 3y ago
        Pandemics over but I still can't get some jobs without the shot.
    - lockhouse 3y ago
      Joe Biden himself said in a public speech that you will not get COVID if you get the vaccine. So no, that is not alt-right spin as you put it. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/one-year-biden-said-not-covid-if-vaccinations https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/one-year-biden-said-...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

cm2187 3y ago

[flagged]

jeezfrk 3y ago
that's a lie. no symptoms and no infectivity is precisely what vaccines gave. vaccines do not function like a benedryl.
purpleblue 3y ago
Wow. This is 100% false and misinformation. The initial vaccine was absolutely tested for infection and was based on infection rates, not based on "severity of symptoms." They changed the narrative after it was clear that vaccination did not provide protection from infection from variants but did maintain protection from severe symptoms.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- malfist 3y ago
  "they" didn't change the narrative. No vaccine prevents an infection. None. Zero. Never happens. The best a vaccine can do is train your immune system to identify and react to the infectious agent before it gains enough of a foothold to impact you. Often, especially if you've been vaccinated with the specific strain that infected you, it can do this before you notice you've been infected. Practically giving you an immunity, but not truly, you still got infected and your immune system still fought it off. For viruses though it's a different story. Viruses mutate, the strain you got vaccinated against may not be the one that enters your body, but the vaccine means your immune system can mount an effective response. In these cases, it significantly reduces risk of hospitalizations and death from the vaccine, but does not mean you won't have some effects from the virus.
  - purpleblue 3y ago
    This is another anti-science post trying to spread misinformation about how vaccines work. I suggest you educate yourself more on how all this works before posting more misinformation. > No vaccine prevents an infection. None. Zero. Never happens. As quoted from the CDC: "A new CDC study provides strong evidence that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective in preventing SARS-CoV-2 infections in real-world conditions among health care personnel, first responders, and other essential workers." https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vaccines.html#:~:text=CDC%20Newsroom%20Releases-,CDC%20Real%2DWorld%20Study%20Confirms%20Protective,of%20mRNA%20COVID%2D19%20Vaccines&text=A%20new%20CDC%20study%20provides,responders%2C%20and%20other%20essential%20workers https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vacci.... Here is your entire post in case you try to change it: >"they" didn't change the narrative. >No vaccine prevents an infection. None. Zero. Never happens. >The best a vaccine can do is train your immune system to identify and react to the infectious agent before it gains enough of a foothold to impact you. Often, especially if you've been vaccinated with the specific strain that infected you, it can do this before you notice you've been infected. Practically giving you an immunity, but not truly, you still got infected and your immune system still fought it off. >For viruses though it's a different story. Viruses mutate, the strain you got vaccinated against may not be the one that enters your body, but the vaccine means your immune system can mount an effective response. In these cases, it significantly reduces risk of hospitalizations and death from the vaccine, but does not mean you won't have some effects from the virus.