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The FTC already debunked this claim years ago (which the article states). Calling out manufacturer propaganda shouldn't even need to be a thing we have to do...

• jeffbee 3y ago
  Which part particularly debunks? It appears ambivalent to me. For example, pages 20-21 seem to conclude that "The use of 18650 cells with the same form factor but different internal chemistries creates the risk that a replacement 18650 will have a different internal chemistry from the original 18650, placing individuals and independent repair shops at risk of inadvertently causing thermal runaway events." As a person who already had to flee one structure fire caused by a DIY hoverboard battery, I am sympathetic to this line of argument.
  • jacquesm 3y ago
    Lithium Ion should be replaced ASAP by safer chemistries so we can sidestep this issue completely. As far as I'm concerned this should have never gotten as far as it did and manufacturers that produce crap batteries (of which there are plenty!) should be held responsible. Apropos: not rare at all to open AAA brand battery packs to find burned out wiring, burned out circuit boards, signs of combustion that somehow didn't go outside of the case. Take no risk with these things, even with the good ones: in case of doubt place in fireproof container and deliver to a recycling station that knows how to handle them safely. If you have no experience with these then do not try to repair a pack because the risks are nothing to be trifled with. Finally: cheap stuff containing 18650's should be avoided like the plague, if the device is cheap then that means the components are even cheaper. Only use devices that use quality cells, that haven't been recycled and that have only been used within spec. Your fire insurance policy protects you from monetary loss, but it won't revive you or your companions...
    • Filligree 3y ago
      > Lithium Ion should be replaces ASAP by safer chemistries so we can sidestep this issue completely. As far as I'm concerned this should have never gotten as far as it did and manufacturers that produce crap batteries (of which there are plenty!) should be held responsible. What should they be replaced with? I'm curious to know what alternate chemistry you're proposing for my e-bike battery.
      • tecleandor 3y ago
        Usually, the safer replacement for Lithium Ion would be LiFePO4. Although I don't know how good performs in e-bikes (I guess it should be fine, as they're used in cars and other stuff...)
        • jacquesm 3y ago
          It works just fine for that application. But: it is a little bit more expensive for the same capacity, and unfortunately the voltage is a little bit lower so it isn't a drop-in replacement.
          • Filligree 3y ago
            Isn't it also quite a bit heavier?
            • jacquesm 3y ago
              Yes, about 50%. So for the same amount of energy you need a larger and heavier battery. Typically the largest capacity Lithium Ion in 18650 format is roughly comparable to a 26650 LIFEPO4. And then there is still the voltage difference (nominally 3.2 for LIFEPO4 and 3.6 for Li-ion).
              • loeg 3y ago
                50% heavier is kind of a problem for E-Bike applications, although maybe not on the low end.
  • tracnar 3y ago
    Standardising the batteries so the connector imposes a certain level of safety would seem like a better solution than making it harder to repair. You can also discourage e.g. self made batteries through insurance policies like you do for cars and homes, i.e. you're not covered if you use a non-certified battery.
    • NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
      OK, so now "right to repair" extends up into the component supply chain?
      • tremon 3y ago
        Why should it not?
    • J_Shelby_J 3y ago
      18650 cells are not like AA alkaline batteries. There are dozens of companies making them around the globe (maybe hundreds), and there are thousands of varieties all with different characteristics. I've spent a long time in that community, and a golden rule is to never mix cells - even cells of the exact same type because they're often binned to be matched to be even closer in operating capacity. Also, and more relevant here, mixing old and new cells is also a big no no due to changing characteristics during aging and use. You can't just pop open a battery pack and replace a bad cell. I mean, you can, but if you cause a fire that kills someone, you should go to prison for negligence.
      • lafar6503 3y ago
        It's not about repairing the battery by amateurs/diy enthusiasts, but the ability to replace the battery with another, compatible. It's not that hard to make sure that new battery meets the required parameters and has compatible connector, so any claim that only one, unique, model of battery can be used is BS. Instead of making stupid excuses producers should clearly specify what are the required parameters and if a battery meets these - should be allowed.
  • GuB-42 3y ago
    People don't need the right to repair to do stupid things and make stuff go on fire. But if the hoverboard manufacturer had released the proper specs for their batteries and the safety procedures they undoubtedly provide to their employees and service centers. Then maybe the DIYer would have made something safer. By keeping safety-critical details like the correct battery chemistry to themselves, they actually encourage people to do stupid things. Getting access to these informations is a big part of the right to repair movement.