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Sounds like not much has changed since 2015. A good friend ordered a new Model S in 2015. It arrived with a "squeak" that turned out to be due to missing weld
by drewg123 3y ago
Sounds like not much has changed since 2015.
A good friend ordered a new Model S in 2015. It arrived with a "squeak" that turned out to be due to missing welds in structural components of the chassis. They wanted him to sign an NDA to get a replacement vehicle (which he refused to do, both on principle, and because he'd talked to friends about it already). So he was forced to keep his vehicle, which was then repaired under warranty for what they initially said was not a warrantable defect. To quote him "They took a huge proponent and turned them into someone who will never, ever, recommend them"
And this is how they treated their early adopters that were paying $100K in 2015 for their higher end cars.
- Cthulhu_ 3y agoWho's to stop the victim from recording evidence, accepting the replacement car, and submitting said evidence anonymously to the media and / or consumer protection and / or the car safety institutions? Are NDAs like that actually enforceable?
- nimajneb 3y agoMy bet is that becomes a scenerio where the party with the most money for lawyers wins. If it was me, I would have almost no money for lawyers.
- latchkey 3y agoNo money for lawyers, before or after you spent $100k on a car?
- thejazzman 3y agoIt's pretty painful to drop thousands on lawyers when you know they have significantly more money and better lawyers I say this as a person who very much wanted to sue Tesla and backed down on the advice of my lawyer friend -- I was most likely only increasing my net loss and severely stressing myself out
- latchkey 3y agoThank you for confirming one of the many reasons I'd probably never buy a Tesla. It (and the blue check), just isn't worth it.
- HPMOR 3y agoHaving recently dealt with this very situation. Lawyers are honestly not __that__ expensive for these disputes and NDA’s are largely unenforceable.
- nightpool 3y agoHow expensive is not that expensive, out of curiosity?
- drewg123 3y agoWas it with Tesla? Curious what happened..
- gruez 3y ago>NDA’s are largely unenforceable source?
- stapedium 3y agoFile a lawsuit to get them to lemon law the thing. Court testimony is public record that can’t be NDAd.
- gruez 3y agoThat doesn't mean NDAs are unenforceable. It just means you're getting them to fix the problem without signing their NDA, and presumably going through more hassle in the process.
- red-iron-pine 3y agoYeah not so sure about that. States will have different laws, and NDAs are not Non-Competes -- different story altogether. Most states can't / won't enforce Non-Competes, but NDAs often have teeth. Most states also have warranty and lemon laws, often specifically aimed at cars, so you could fight the NDA or ignore it and push for a warranty violation or lemon law case.
- gabereiser 3y agoThis is exactly why NDA's are enforceable. If you sign one, you can not break it without risking litigation. In Tesla's case, they totally would. You can't share any information that is called out in the NDA. This would probably include video, recordings, messages, media, any and all online posts referring to the incident and future discussions of the incident. Whatever is specifically called out in the NDA as far as terms, timeframe, etc. There are some NDA's that are for life.
- chrisco255 3y agoIt would be a weird play for anyone to sign such a thing. Most states in the U.S. have lemon laws that prevent maufacturers from selling such vehicles. A manufacturer only gets a certain number of attempts at repairs (usually 3 for new cars) on new vehicles or a limited time frame to fix them before they must offer a full replacement.
- stef25 3y ago> A manufacturer only gets a certain number of attempts at repairs (usually 3 for new cars) on new vehicles or a limited time frame to fix them before they must offer a full replacement Wow that would be awesome. Someone I know here in the EU had a leaking sun roof on their Toyota and after so many fixes and replacements that did nothing (and she had to pay for) the dealer basically said "we can't fix it, the parts are made by another company bla bla ...".
- alamortsubite 3y agoSome dealers offer third-party accessories as options on new cars. I had a car whose aftermarket sunroof was installed by the dealer when it was bought by the original owner. Fortunately, mine never leaked, but I'm not sure the US Lemon Laws would have covered it if it had.
- aequitas 3y agoWhen buying in the EU (at least where I'm from) the contract is between the consumer and the seller. So if something is wrong the seller can't shift blame to the manufacturer and have me have to deal with them. How they handle the issue with the manufacturer is their problem. If they can't offer a repair or replacement they need to refund. Manufacturers can offer additional warranty on top of the legally required warranty the seller has to offer which will fall outside of the sellers responsibility.
- Macha 3y agoCompanies do sometimes make it difficult in a way I hope more of them get slapped one. The largest electronics retailer in my country will have their front line staff try their hardest to deflect you to the manufacturer warranty, their online return form will make you enter a manufacturer ticket number as a mandatory field, so to actually get that honoured, your best bet is usually to go in store and escalate to a manager. Normally I try to support stores over Amazon in a "use it or lose it" sense but that particular retailer is the exception.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago> And this is how they treated their early adopters that were paying $100K in 2015 for their higher end cars. And yet it didn't stop anyone from buying Teslas... It's almost as if they knew they could get away with murder.
- jen20 3y agoThis kind of thing certainly stopped me from buying one, even in the days before they were referred to as “MAGAmobiles”. Instead I waited for companies that actually know how to make cars to work out how to make electric cars.
- Fatnino 3y agoWho is calling them MAGAmobiles? A MAGAmobile is a lifted truck that rolls coal and has a huge lets go brandon decal
- thejazzman 3y agoEveryone I know with a Tesla is very much anti-Musk and bought before he totally jumped the horse
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y agoYeah, I thought it was way more MAGA to burn fossil fuels than drive an electric car.
- res0nat0r 3y agoTeslas are being called MAGAmobiles now that Musk bought Twitter and has shown his love for rightwing disinformation and keeps replying to and platforming alt-right racists and other neo-nazi adjacent folks.
- Gud 3y agoMaybe in some tiny bubble, not in the actual world.
- 71a54xd 3y agoYour friend was a fool to not take the new vehicle (removing his financial burden) and then just do whatever he wanted with the info... Granted, I'd lease a Hyundai before ever considering buying a Tesla. It's too bad bc I like the tech, but lack of ownership, software telemetry and shoddy service is a deal breaker.
- saiya-jin 3y agoYeah shoddy service that is. A colleague has model S, in Switzerland, when going for some service checks they kept him there, in the middle of nowhere without any good public transport for half a day without any warning during work day, he was furious. Every single crappy dealer/official service here will give you a replacement car to not mess up your life for just stupid car checks, whatever basic car is fine. Tesla no, fuck off we don't care, wait.
- thfuran 3y ago>(removing his financial burden) and then just do whatever he wanted with the info.. Thus creating a whole new financial burden.
- bowsamic 3y agoHe was a fool to avoid a legal battle with Tesla?
- 7789123 3y ago[dead]
- thejazzman 3y agoMy 2015's battery "died" the day after the warranty was up. $15k for a refurbished battery from another old broken car. Once fixed, the cars resell value is at about $20k. And they took my battery back to sell to someone else for $15k. Definitely feel like a HUGE sucker for supporting them. This thing was $101k new.
- scoofy 3y agoI had a few very smart friends who were very successful in business at a young age. They all sort of celebrated having made it by buying high-end Audi’s when they were the hot luxury cars in the mid-2000’s. The cars weren’t very reliable (even dumb shit like the electric windows would break) and the repairs were notably more expensive than they should have been. One of them explained that he finally understood that someone willing to pay triple the price of a standard car can be charged triple for repairs too. He sold the luxury car and bought a Prius and said it was 100x better just because of how reliable it was, and it had the same bells and whistles anyway.
- murkt 3y ago> it had the same bells and whistles anyway Electric windows, sure.
- scoofy 3y agoI mean, I didn't own the car so I have no idea what "options" a luxury car could have over a standard car with all the extra options included, but he sure seemed to think that the Prius had exactly the same things he enjoyed in the Audi. Note, we were in Austin where something like leather seats would be a bad idea.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Gibbon1 3y agoI remember 7-8 years ago taking a trip down HWY35, then dropped down into Portola Valley. 5-10M dollar houses. Lot of them had a Prius sitting in the driveway next way more expensive cars.
- Roark66 3y agoAren't there some laws that require a car manufacturer to buy back a faulty car like this?
- red-iron-pine 3y agolemon laws will vary by state and level of impact. but, basically, yeah. most have warranty laws, too.