4 ms·

Was curious about the organization behind this. It's called "People for Bikes" and the board* is made up of big bike co execs. https://www.peopleforbikes.org/

Was curious about the organization behind this. It's called "People for Bikes" and the board* is made up of big bike co execs. https://www.peopleforbikes.org/board https://www.peopleforbikes.org/board

Macha 3y ago
I think this is more a case of "regulatory capture" (or in this case "lobbyist capture", I guess). When your goal is the promotion of cycling infrastructure, the goals of cyclist and bike companies are aligned, so you might not think too much of your lobby group being run by the corporate interests you agree with. Right up until you get to an issue like this where suddenly those formerly aligned interests are no longer aligned. Except now you've given these group the legitimacy to claim to represent the interests of cyclists, even when it's now going against them.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  To be honest I think this is more an issue of an org that can be constructed nearly whole cloth by one or more corporate entities and be basically designed from the word go to misinform the public, somehow. Be it the more Machiavellian end of the spectrum where you want to convince people a bad thing is good actually (a lot of climate stuff fits this, looking at you Koch) all the way to this kind of thing. The scale of the lie is an interesting data point, but nevertheless, we as a society have apparently decided we're okay being lied to at scale. That's... weird, right? Like even if you say companies should have the right to lobby (which frankly I'd disagree with but I digress), why are they allowed to do it like this? Where they astroturf a "citizens" group to trick people into parroting their propaganda?
  - InSteady 3y ago
    Freedom of $peech is a broad umbrella. And at least in America, we are incredibly business friendly while being rather cavalier regarding consumer protections. At the same time we are an incredibly litigious society, so you end up with a perverse situation where laws, regulations, and bureaucratic inefficiencies choke up the efforts of businesses and nonprofit organizations (and even local governments), but individual consumers still regularly get fucked with absolutely no recourse. Other than shelling out for a lawyer and taking someone to civil court themselves. Lobbying is it's own can of worms as a system with perverse incentives and ethical quagmires. But good luck getting any traction trying to change the way that works.. anyone in a position to make changes to it stands to benefit from this way of doing things (and has probably been indoctrinated into believing it is an effective and equitable system in any case). At least our brand of political corruption is (mostly) out in the open and "on the books." Businesses and NGOs get tax write-offs for their lobbying expenses, so there is plenty of documentation.
afavour 3y ago
That stuff always infuriates me. I have no problem with an industry forming a group to advocate for their interests but when they deliberate misname themselves it makes it clear day one that they have no intention of honesty.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  So you like the power structure, but wish for at most a change of heart to overcome the incentives - keep wishing
- mysterydip 3y ago
  similar: OpenAI
- pessimizer 3y ago
  If they were as advanced as pharmaceutical or medical device companies, they'd just pour money into a "consumer/patient's group" that they'd completely control the administration and priorities of, and make sure that no one is allowed to be a candidate for the board without their opinion vetting. This is better.
local_person 3y ago
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Macha 3y ago

I think this is more a case of "regulatory capture" (or in this case "lobbyist capture", I guess). When your goal is the promotion of cycling infrastructure, the goals of cyclist and bike companies are aligned, so you might not think too much of your lobby group being run by the corporate interests you agree with. Right up until you get to an issue like this where suddenly those formerly aligned interests are no longer aligned. Except now you've given these group the legitimacy to claim to represent the interests of cyclists, even when it's now going against them.

ToucanLoucan 3y ago
To be honest I think this is more an issue of an org that can be constructed nearly whole cloth by one or more corporate entities and be basically designed from the word go to misinform the public, somehow. Be it the more Machiavellian end of the spectrum where you want to convince people a bad thing is good actually (a lot of climate stuff fits this, looking at you Koch) all the way to this kind of thing. The scale of the lie is an interesting data point, but nevertheless, we as a society have apparently decided we're okay being lied to at scale. That's... weird, right? Like even if you say companies should have the right to lobby (which frankly I'd disagree with but I digress), why are they allowed to do it like this? Where they astroturf a "citizens" group to trick people into parroting their propaganda?
- InSteady 3y ago
  Freedom of $peech is a broad umbrella. And at least in America, we are incredibly business friendly while being rather cavalier regarding consumer protections. At the same time we are an incredibly litigious society, so you end up with a perverse situation where laws, regulations, and bureaucratic inefficiencies choke up the efforts of businesses and nonprofit organizations (and even local governments), but individual consumers still regularly get fucked with absolutely no recourse. Other than shelling out for a lawyer and taking someone to civil court themselves. Lobbying is it's own can of worms as a system with perverse incentives and ethical quagmires. But good luck getting any traction trying to change the way that works.. anyone in a position to make changes to it stands to benefit from this way of doing things (and has probably been indoctrinated into believing it is an effective and equitable system in any case). At least our brand of political corruption is (mostly) out in the open and "on the books." Businesses and NGOs get tax write-offs for their lobbying expenses, so there is plenty of documentation.

afavour 3y ago

That stuff always infuriates me. I have no problem with an industry forming a group to advocate for their interests but when they deliberate misname themselves it makes it clear day one that they have no intention of honesty.

wahnfrieden 3y ago
So you like the power structure, but wish for at most a change of heart to overcome the incentives - keep wishing
mysterydip 3y ago
similar: OpenAI
pessimizer 3y ago
If they were as advanced as pharmaceutical or medical device companies, they'd just pour money into a "consumer/patient's group" that they'd completely control the administration and priorities of, and make sure that no one is allowed to be a candidate for the board without their opinion vetting. This is better.

local_person 3y ago

[dead]