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This is a slam-dunk for the typical American lemon law. The owner of the car should go out and find a lemon law lawyer. When I had to work with one I didn't ha

This is a slam-dunk for the typical American lemon law. The owner of the car should go out and find a lemon law lawyer. When I had to work with one I didn't have to pay a thing. (I had a Subaru where the GPS / Stereo would reboot while I drove and loose its settings. After a bunch of replacements, the car still had the problem. I had to catch it on video, though. Subaru ended up declaring the car a lemon after trying to fix it multiple times.) FWIW: I own two Teslas and their service is horrible. Every time I take it in, they never put the car back together and I have to take it back.

rsynnott 3y ago
> I own two Teslas and their service is horrible. Genuinely curious; why did you buy the second one? I might possibly be slightly over-vindictive with brands, but once a brand fails me I’m very reluctant to buy something else from them (a Samsung TV with some silly quality control and firmware issues was enough to make me swear off Samsung, and the Nexus 7 (original one; the one that tended to degrade after about a year) was enough to convince me never to buy hardware from Google again, say). In particular, I would never buy the _same thing_ (most current Tesla cars are ~the same thing) from a company where I’d already bought one defective thing.
- toddmorey 3y ago
  I’m shopping for anything EV other than a Tesla now. There are many options now, but Tesla is still way ahead with the power train. Most competitors aren’t at the same place on range & performance yet. It’s an amazing power train glued inside a 90s-era Oldsmobile.
  - stef25 3y ago
    Mercedes EQ ?
    - SauciestGNU 3y ago
      Beautiful car and great competition against the Model S. I've been ogling one at the dealership I bike past regularly.
  - zamalek 3y ago
    The Mach E has a mere 40mi less range (290mi) and slightly better performance than the Model Y. They are also adding support for NACS (Tesla charger port) at some point soon. That's the only comparable EV that I know of at the price point, but there's definitely more.
    - Reubachi 3y ago
      Ford can't sell Mach Es to save their life, though, because they don't have ludicrous mode/800 HP/name appeal. Massive flop from Ford (and I say that as the biggest ford fanboy in this thread.) You and I know that the ford is made much better for "less", for obvious reasons But ask yourself, who is going to buy a heavy electric SUV from Ford? -a typical mustang GT buyer? No way. -a person who currently has a model S/Y/3? fat chance. -a new EV buyer? Too expensive and "bland". Does all EV things "middle". -A ford Fan? I'll gladly take the f150 lightning over mustang. I want to see the f150 lightning and similar really make a dent/impression.
      - stapedium 3y ago
        Target market for the MachE is explorer and escape owners looking at EVs. Lightning and MachE aren’t anywhere close to the same price point. # of MachEs at local dealer = 3 # of F150s sitting on lot >1 month = 50-100
      - zamalek 3y ago
        You missed the "I want a get from A to B SUV, without Tesla" - which is squarely me. The type of shit in the article, right to repair, and general Elon bullshit has me very uninterested in Tesla. > -a new EV buyer? Too expensive and "bland". Does all EV things "middle". It is actually SUV-sized (unlike the likes of the Kona, which you may be comparing it to - it is only shaped like an SUV). It can be cheaper than the Model Y, depending on the sku - and those two are the only budget EV SUVs that I am aware of (the E-Tron and iX are significantly more expensive). Bland? Who cares. There are people who only care about the utility that a vehicle has to offer. It is servicing an area of the market that only has one other deeply incompetent (as-per the article) competitor.
  - philistine 3y ago
    I’m very hopeful that in five years time, Tesla has been so thoroughly lapped by the rest of the car industry that they have to start closing some of their gigafactories. I’d bet good money on that.
    - Corrado 3y ago
      I love my Tesla and I too hope that other automakers get better at producing EVs. Competition is great and the whole world wins when everyone gets better. I'm looking forward to being able to get an electric Audi, Volvo, VW, etc. and be confident that the software, updates, charging infrastructure, etc. is be better than Tesla's system. That day is not today, but I hope it's soon.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
    I'm a big fan of my Chevy Bolt. ~250 miles range is plenty for commuting and making day trips to friends and whatnot. Any further than that and I'd want to fly, anyway.
    - barfingclouds 3y ago
      It makes me so happy that Chevy decided to no longer discontinue the Bolt. I’m both poor and currently very happy with my current car (ford cmax). But once this guy’s life is over, I’m looking to a bolt next. Or if Tesla has the rumored Model 2 out by then I’ll consider that as well.
- gottorf 3y ago
  > I might possibly be slightly over-vindictive with brands At your rate, you might run out of brands to buy from ;-)
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    Eh, that’s two over about the last decade. I’ll manage :)
- ta988 3y ago
  I didn't know the Nexus 7 had issues I had mine for almost 10y and just gave it away to someone it is still working and the battery too (albeit not really long anymore).
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    For some users the storage became _extremely_ slow over time. Not sure did anyone ever really figure out what was going on.
    - KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
      That's just normal flash memory degradation when you are using low quality chips. It's very common, especially among low end Samsungs. It's not something that can be fixed on the software side.
      - rsynnott 3y ago
        It was really very rapid in the Nexus 7 for me, though. I think my iPad Air 2 has it to an extent now, say, but it’s _9 years old_; it is somewhat understandable. My 2012 Nexus 7 was starting to behave very badly a year in.
        KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
        Were you doing any rooting, flashing of custom roms, large i/o operations like video stuff or similar? The average flash memory chip quality of that era (depending on the supplier) wasn’t great, they can’t handle as much read-write cycles as typical modern consumer silicon.
  - thedougd 3y ago
    It used some eMMC storage that would massively slow down as it filled.
  - delecti 3y ago
    You may have had the second iteration. They released a slight upgrade about a year later under the same name, and it wasn't susceptible to the same degradation.
- postmodest 3y ago
  Being "in the market" it wasn't until thr new crop of Hyundai EVs came out that there was anything approaching the Tesla in the car-design feature set. Sure you could buy a Prius, but I always felt like the Prius was designed to be ugly and awkward to drive specifically so it wouldn't hurt Toyotas billions of dollars of ICE sales.
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  Ironic fact: The Nexus 7 and the original Tesla Model S share the exact same flaw: They both used a Tegra 3 SOC with memory that would effectively fail in shorter-than-normal time. The outcome is that the system would get slower or in the Tesla's case, crash.
- gwbas1c 3y ago
  Because I needed a 3-row vehicle, I refuse to buy anything that runs on gasoline, and the Supercharger network is the only viable high speed charging network in the US.
  - bob_theslob646 3y ago
    How do you think that electricity is most likely being generated?
toddmorey 3y ago
Us too! They fixed a door handle and now the interior door panel falls off. They fixed a flash storage issue with the touchscreen and now it leaks some kind of sticky sealant everywhere. I’m scared to have them address anything.
jsbisviewtiful 3y ago
[dead]
crazygringo 3y ago
> Every time I take it in, they never put the car back together and I have to take it back. What does that mean? The car is in 5 pieces? Take it back unfixed? What do you do then to fix it?
- gwbas1c 3y ago
  I had to go in for a recall on the charging port, and when I came back home the car wouldn't charge because they connected something incorrectly. When I went back to get the car fixed, they left a bunch of wires disconnected under the back seat. A few weeks ago I had to go in for a problem with the driver's seat belt. They didn't re-attach the panel with the switches for the power seat correctly, so now it keeps falling off.
fingerlocks 3y ago
> I had a Subaru where the GPS / Stereo would reboot while I drove and loose its settings. I had this same problem and it was solved with a firmware update. I wonder if that came later?

rsynnott 3y ago

> I own two Teslas and their service is horrible. Genuinely curious; why did you buy the second one? I might possibly be slightly over-vindictive with brands, but once a brand fails me I’m very reluctant to buy something else from them (a Samsung TV with some silly quality control and firmware issues was enough to make me swear off Samsung, and the Nexus 7 (original one; the one that tended to degrade after about a year) was enough to convince me never to buy hardware from Google again, say). In particular, I would never buy the _same thing_ (most current Tesla cars are ~the same thing) from a company where I’d already bought one defective thing.

toddmorey 3y ago
I’m shopping for anything EV other than a Tesla now. There are many options now, but Tesla is still way ahead with the power train. Most competitors aren’t at the same place on range & performance yet. It’s an amazing power train glued inside a 90s-era Oldsmobile.
- stef25 3y ago
  Mercedes EQ ?
  - SauciestGNU 3y ago
    Beautiful car and great competition against the Model S. I've been ogling one at the dealership I bike past regularly.
- zamalek 3y ago
  The Mach E has a mere 40mi less range (290mi) and slightly better performance than the Model Y. They are also adding support for NACS (Tesla charger port) at some point soon. That's the only comparable EV that I know of at the price point, but there's definitely more.
  - Reubachi 3y ago
    Ford can't sell Mach Es to save their life, though, because they don't have ludicrous mode/800 HP/name appeal. Massive flop from Ford (and I say that as the biggest ford fanboy in this thread.) You and I know that the ford is made much better for "less", for obvious reasons But ask yourself, who is going to buy a heavy electric SUV from Ford? -a typical mustang GT buyer? No way. -a person who currently has a model S/Y/3? fat chance. -a new EV buyer? Too expensive and "bland". Does all EV things "middle". -A ford Fan? I'll gladly take the f150 lightning over mustang. I want to see the f150 lightning and similar really make a dent/impression.
    - stapedium 3y ago
      Target market for the MachE is explorer and escape owners looking at EVs. Lightning and MachE aren’t anywhere close to the same price point. # of MachEs at local dealer = 3 # of F150s sitting on lot >1 month = 50-100
    - zamalek 3y ago
      You missed the "I want a get from A to B SUV, without Tesla" - which is squarely me. The type of shit in the article, right to repair, and general Elon bullshit has me very uninterested in Tesla. > -a new EV buyer? Too expensive and "bland". Does all EV things "middle". It is actually SUV-sized (unlike the likes of the Kona, which you may be comparing it to - it is only shaped like an SUV). It can be cheaper than the Model Y, depending on the sku - and those two are the only budget EV SUVs that I am aware of (the E-Tron and iX are significantly more expensive). Bland? Who cares. There are people who only care about the utility that a vehicle has to offer. It is servicing an area of the market that only has one other deeply incompetent (as-per the article) competitor.
- philistine 3y ago
  I’m very hopeful that in five years time, Tesla has been so thoroughly lapped by the rest of the car industry that they have to start closing some of their gigafactories. I’d bet good money on that.
  - Corrado 3y ago
    I love my Tesla and I too hope that other automakers get better at producing EVs. Competition is great and the whole world wins when everyone gets better. I'm looking forward to being able to get an electric Audi, Volvo, VW, etc. and be confident that the software, updates, charging infrastructure, etc. is be better than Tesla's system. That day is not today, but I hope it's soon.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
  I'm a big fan of my Chevy Bolt. ~250 miles range is plenty for commuting and making day trips to friends and whatnot. Any further than that and I'd want to fly, anyway.
  - barfingclouds 3y ago
    It makes me so happy that Chevy decided to no longer discontinue the Bolt. I’m both poor and currently very happy with my current car (ford cmax). But once this guy’s life is over, I’m looking to a bolt next. Or if Tesla has the rumored Model 2 out by then I’ll consider that as well.
gottorf 3y ago
> I might possibly be slightly over-vindictive with brands At your rate, you might run out of brands to buy from ;-)
- rsynnott 3y ago
  Eh, that’s two over about the last decade. I’ll manage :)
ta988 3y ago
I didn't know the Nexus 7 had issues I had mine for almost 10y and just gave it away to someone it is still working and the battery too (albeit not really long anymore).
- rsynnott 3y ago
  For some users the storage became _extremely_ slow over time. Not sure did anyone ever really figure out what was going on.
  - KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
    That's just normal flash memory degradation when you are using low quality chips. It's very common, especially among low end Samsungs. It's not something that can be fixed on the software side.
    - rsynnott 3y ago
      It was really very rapid in the Nexus 7 for me, though. I think my iPad Air 2 has it to an extent now, say, but it’s _9 years old_; it is somewhat understandable. My 2012 Nexus 7 was starting to behave very badly a year in.
      - KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
        Were you doing any rooting, flashing of custom roms, large i/o operations like video stuff or similar? The average flash memory chip quality of that era (depending on the supplier) wasn’t great, they can’t handle as much read-write cycles as typical modern consumer silicon.
- thedougd 3y ago
  It used some eMMC storage that would massively slow down as it filled.
- delecti 3y ago
  You may have had the second iteration. They released a slight upgrade about a year later under the same name, and it wasn't susceptible to the same degradation.
postmodest 3y ago
Being "in the market" it wasn't until thr new crop of Hyundai EVs came out that there was anything approaching the Tesla in the car-design feature set. Sure you could buy a Prius, but I always felt like the Prius was designed to be ugly and awkward to drive specifically so it wouldn't hurt Toyotas billions of dollars of ICE sales.
agloe_dreams 3y ago
Ironic fact: The Nexus 7 and the original Tesla Model S share the exact same flaw: They both used a Tegra 3 SOC with memory that would effectively fail in shorter-than-normal time. The outcome is that the system would get slower or in the Tesla's case, crash.
gwbas1c 3y ago
Because I needed a 3-row vehicle, I refuse to buy anything that runs on gasoline, and the Supercharger network is the only viable high speed charging network in the US.
- bob_theslob646 3y ago
  How do you think that electricity is most likely being generated?

toddmorey 3y ago

Us too! They fixed a door handle and now the interior door panel falls off. They fixed a flash storage issue with the touchscreen and now it leaks some kind of sticky sealant everywhere. I’m scared to have them address anything.

jsbisviewtiful 3y ago

[dead]

crazygringo 3y ago

> Every time I take it in, they never put the car back together and I have to take it back. What does that mean? The car is in 5 pieces? Take it back unfixed? What do you do then to fix it?

gwbas1c 3y ago
I had to go in for a recall on the charging port, and when I came back home the car wouldn't charge because they connected something incorrectly. When I went back to get the car fixed, they left a bunch of wires disconnected under the back seat. A few weeks ago I had to go in for a problem with the driver's seat belt. They didn't re-attach the panel with the switches for the power seat correctly, so now it keeps falling off.

fingerlocks 3y ago

> I had a Subaru where the GPS / Stereo would reboot while I drove and loose its settings. I had this same problem and it was solved with a firmware update. I wonder if that came later?