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Am a military veteran. While I know there's plenty of grift on this front, I'd like to point out that you have to become extremely adept at gaming the system ev

by 23B1 3y ago

Am a military veteran. While I know there's plenty of grift on this front, I'd like to point out that you have to become extremely adept at gaming the system even if you have a legitimate injury/disability. The games the VA plays to deny benefits are just as cynical and brazen as many other things the government writ large has done to conceal dangers to veterans – dangers that can have far, far-reaching health consequences. I welcome you to look up the development and deployment of Agent Orange for an example that is still killing people today. Edit: https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/publications/agent-orange/agent-orange-summer-2015/diabetes.asp https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/publications/agent...

mattw2121 3y ago
I am well aware of Agent Orange and am also aware that anyone that was anywhere close to Agent Orange figures out a way to correlate every single health issue they experience to Agent Orange. I'm not saying that Agent Orange wasn't a problem and, of course, it caused health issues for many people. What I am saying is that a 80 year old man, that is 100 pounds overweight, who develops diabetes didn't necessarily get diabetes from Agent Orange exposure.
- 23B1 3y ago
  Yes, that is exactly the same logic the VA uses to deny claims to people who did in fact get diabetes from Agent Orange exposure. Looks like you have a bright future in claims adjustment! ;-) Edit: There's plenty of evidence connecting Agent Orange exposure to a whole host of illnesses that only manifest later in life – including Diabetes. It's even on the VA's own site: https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/publications/agent-orange/agent-orange-summer-2015/diabetes.asp https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/publications/agent...
  - brianwawok 3y ago
    How do you conclusively attribute diabetes to agent orange 40 years after the fact? What test do you run, and what scientific methodology do you employ? We are real bad at connecting dots that take more than a few years to happen. So many other things happen to us every day. Even if some bad action doubles your odds of a certain outcome.. that means it is still 50/50 if the original thing "caused" your bad outcome.
    - linuxftw 3y ago
      My grandfather was killed by agent orange. He wound up with some extremely rare lung condition, but according to the VA, it wasn't the right lung condition so they denied his claim. He didn't die in his 80s, he died in his early 60s. The VA also claimed he was never exposed because he wasn't in one of the units they claim were exposed, that's the other game they play. He was in a mobile unit that was sent to various places in theater, so the government doesn't have the documentation of where they actually were, but claims they know he wasn't exposed. He told me first hand he woke up one morning and the jungle outside the base was completely gone. We don't know what agent orange did to people. Agent orange wasn't even the only defoliant used. How much of it was stored improperly? How much of it was contaminated during manufacturing with other compounds? Fortunately, we still use 2,4-D, half the mix of agent orange, so we all get to find out first hand.
    - 23B1 3y ago
      The simple fact is that human physiology isn't as simple as 50/50. All kinds of things can contribute to Diabetes, to be sure, but studies have shown that a lot of these illnesses are probabilistic in nature, e.g. there's a higher incidence of things like diabetes amongst people who've been exposed to AO even when corrected for other variables. https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/publications/agent-orange/agent-orange-summer-2015/diabetes.asp https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/publications/agent... Of course, I haven't even broached the moral obligation the American public has to men they send to war...

by 23B1 3y ago

mattw2121 3y ago

I am well aware of Agent Orange and am also aware that anyone that was anywhere close to Agent Orange figures out a way to correlate every single health issue they experience to Agent Orange. I'm not saying that Agent Orange wasn't a problem and, of course, it caused health issues for many people. What I am saying is that a 80 year old man, that is 100 pounds overweight, who develops diabetes didn't necessarily get diabetes from Agent Orange exposure.

23B1 3y ago
Yes, that is exactly the same logic the VA uses to deny claims to people who did in fact get diabetes from Agent Orange exposure. Looks like you have a bright future in claims adjustment! ;-) Edit: There's plenty of evidence connecting Agent Orange exposure to a whole host of illnesses that only manifest later in life – including Diabetes. It's even on the VA's own site: https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/publications/agent-orange/agent-orange-summer-2015/diabetes.asp https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/publications/agent...
- brianwawok 3y ago
  How do you conclusively attribute diabetes to agent orange 40 years after the fact? What test do you run, and what scientific methodology do you employ? We are real bad at connecting dots that take more than a few years to happen. So many other things happen to us every day. Even if some bad action doubles your odds of a certain outcome.. that means it is still 50/50 if the original thing "caused" your bad outcome.
  - linuxftw 3y ago
    My grandfather was killed by agent orange. He wound up with some extremely rare lung condition, but according to the VA, it wasn't the right lung condition so they denied his claim. He didn't die in his 80s, he died in his early 60s. The VA also claimed he was never exposed because he wasn't in one of the units they claim were exposed, that's the other game they play. He was in a mobile unit that was sent to various places in theater, so the government doesn't have the documentation of where they actually were, but claims they know he wasn't exposed. He told me first hand he woke up one morning and the jungle outside the base was completely gone. We don't know what agent orange did to people. Agent orange wasn't even the only defoliant used. How much of it was stored improperly? How much of it was contaminated during manufacturing with other compounds? Fortunately, we still use 2,4-D, half the mix of agent orange, so we all get to find out first hand.
  - 23B1 3y ago
    The simple fact is that human physiology isn't as simple as 50/50. All kinds of things can contribute to Diabetes, to be sure, but studies have shown that a lot of these illnesses are probabilistic in nature, e.g. there's a higher incidence of things like diabetes amongst people who've been exposed to AO even when corrected for other variables. https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/publications/agent-orange/agent-orange-summer-2015/diabetes.asp https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/publications/agent... Of course, I haven't even broached the moral obligation the American public has to men they send to war...