3 ms·

With the exception of the language issue, pretty much all of the above describes the US as well. The South and Midwest are far more cohesive with regard to each

With the exception of the language issue, pretty much all of the above describes the US as well. The South and Midwest are far more cohesive with regard to each other than the coastal cities and Pacific Northwest, and vice versa. Every 4-8 years we tend to "overthrow" the preferred Presidential candidate of one of those two factions - as flawed as they are - through a democratic process. One of those factions prefers stronger social programs while the other prefers weaker. Note that I explicitly don't intend for this comment to become about the US civil war, and will not respond to any comments about the historical or social conditions there. For that matter, it also describes Canada to a large extent; there is a large, geographically concentrated faction of Francophones and a similarly large, geographically concentrated faction of Anglophones. They have significantly divergent histories, social norms, and so on. In fact... every large country with which I'm familiar that does not share a single common history and culture has these issues. They all seem to come to a workable system for integrating their factions into a single political system absent outside force. I see no reason Ukraine shouldn't be able to do that same, given a few decades to get there.

thriftwy 3y ago
> we tend to "overthrow" the preferred Presidential candidate of one of those two factions through a democratic process Well the Ukrainians did that by gathering a large crowd and dislodging a President they don't like. The USA is not there yet, but the latest events around Trump point that it is an option to contemplate in the future. > describes Canada to a large extent; there is a large, geographically concentrated faction of Francophones and a similarly large, geographically concentrated faction of Anglophones. Imagine Canada passing laws that the only language of education and government services should be French. Because that's basically what happened. It all started when the aforementioned large crowd overthrew the Eastern-elected president and then cancelled the law giving the East an option to use their mother's tongue (Russian). And then Vancouver saying Au Revoir and joining the US. More specifically, Victoria and Vancouver Island with its naval bases joining the US outright, and Vancouver city becoming a "Republic of Vancouver" besieged by Canadian army. Then Canada spends a decade explaining everybody (in French) that it's a US proxy led by some rednecks who moved in from Seattle. Not all of them are even Canadian! Whereas people in Toronto begrudgingly begin learning French, the ones who want to show loyalty to the state do so by switching to Frenglish. New textbooks issued by Quebec intellectual circles depict the "many wars" that Canada has fought against the USA and England all the times. Some of those are technically correct. The wars where Canada has fought on the side of England or USA are skipped. 24 of August becoming the main pompious state military holiday.
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  > And then Vancouver saying Au Revoir and joining the US. More specifically, Victoria and Vancouver Island with its naval bases joining the US outright, and Vancouver city becoming a "Republic of Vancouver" besieged by Canadian army. If this is meant to be Crimea you have seemingly left the part out where the Americans invade with tanks and guns and hold rifles to peoples heads to get them to vote the correct way.
  - thriftwy 3y ago
    Sure. Because of course they were all dying to learn the old and poetic French and use it for all their needs from this moment on. Only american guns could sway them away from that plan. Which did promptly materialise when it became apparent that Canada is not in position to control its naval crown jewel.
    - _kbh_ 3y ago
      > Only american guns could sway them away from that plan. If the Russians were so sure of the vote in Crimea they would not have had to use guns to make sure it went the direction they wanted.
      - thriftwy 3y ago
        I'm not sure whether you are joking, or do you really think that the actual voting booths were held under a literal gunpoint. Spoiler: they were not.
        _kbh_ 3y ago
        > I'm not sure whether you are joking, or do you really think that the actual voting booths were held under a literal gunpoint. Spoiler: they were not. Igor Girkin, the person who was there and ran all of this disagrees with your opinion he said that they held people at gun point to make sure that the judiciary voted to annex Crimea to Russia.

thriftwy 3y ago

> we tend to "overthrow" the preferred Presidential candidate of one of those two factions through a democratic process Well the Ukrainians did that by gathering a large crowd and dislodging a President they don't like. The USA is not there yet, but the latest events around Trump point that it is an option to contemplate in the future. > describes Canada to a large extent; there is a large, geographically concentrated faction of Francophones and a similarly large, geographically concentrated faction of Anglophones. Imagine Canada passing laws that the only language of education and government services should be French. Because that's basically what happened. It all started when the aforementioned large crowd overthrew the Eastern-elected president and then cancelled the law giving the East an option to use their mother's tongue (Russian). And then Vancouver saying Au Revoir and joining the US. More specifically, Victoria and Vancouver Island with its naval bases joining the US outright, and Vancouver city becoming a "Republic of Vancouver" besieged by Canadian army. Then Canada spends a decade explaining everybody (in French) that it's a US proxy led by some rednecks who moved in from Seattle. Not all of them are even Canadian! Whereas people in Toronto begrudgingly begin learning French, the ones who want to show loyalty to the state do so by switching to Frenglish. New textbooks issued by Quebec intellectual circles depict the "many wars" that Canada has fought against the USA and England all the times. Some of those are technically correct. The wars where Canada has fought on the side of England or USA are skipped. 24 of August becoming the main pompious state military holiday.

_kbh_ 3y ago
> And then Vancouver saying Au Revoir and joining the US. More specifically, Victoria and Vancouver Island with its naval bases joining the US outright, and Vancouver city becoming a "Republic of Vancouver" besieged by Canadian army. If this is meant to be Crimea you have seemingly left the part out where the Americans invade with tanks and guns and hold rifles to peoples heads to get them to vote the correct way.
- thriftwy 3y ago
  Sure. Because of course they were all dying to learn the old and poetic French and use it for all their needs from this moment on. Only american guns could sway them away from that plan. Which did promptly materialise when it became apparent that Canada is not in position to control its naval crown jewel.
  - _kbh_ 3y ago
    > Only american guns could sway them away from that plan. If the Russians were so sure of the vote in Crimea they would not have had to use guns to make sure it went the direction they wanted.
    - thriftwy 3y ago
      I'm not sure whether you are joking, or do you really think that the actual voting booths were held under a literal gunpoint. Spoiler: they were not.
      - _kbh_ 3y ago
        > I'm not sure whether you are joking, or do you really think that the actual voting booths were held under a literal gunpoint. Spoiler: they were not. Igor Girkin, the person who was there and ran all of this disagrees with your opinion he said that they held people at gun point to make sure that the judiciary voted to annex Crimea to Russia.