5 ms·

>"For example, I’m commuting every day 2×45 minutes to my workplace and back home. I need 5 minutes to get to the train station with my bike, 10 minutes to wait

>"For example, I’m commuting every day 2×45 minutes to my workplace and back home. I need 5 minutes to get to the train station with my bike, 10 minutes to wait for the (connecting) trains, 25 minutes actually on the trains, 5 minutes to get from the train to my working place" There's a big one right there. Time lost due to commute times are actually much longer than the door-to-door time. It's not just the 90 min that you're loosing with the commute, it's also the context switching before and after the commute: checking the weather outside to select the right clothing, getting dressed with the right attire that fits(unless you forgot to do the laundry), grooming and looking sharp before you go out (gotta brush off the dried dirt of the shoes from yesterday's rain), walking around your campus/building between your office and coffe-machine/water cooler to hydrate, setting up your laptop/desk to get in the zone, walking around looking for meeting rooms, all this adds up on top of those 90 min to more like 120 minutes or even more. That's 2h/day, or, if we assume 8h work and 8h sleep, that's 25% of your leisure time left lost for nothing, just to go to work and back. Just let that sink in. 25%! A quarter! One fourth! Even though in practice it's worse than that as 8h of work doesn't include the mandatory unpaid (in my corner of Europe) 30min-1h lunch break, so you're not left with much leisure time between work and sleep. And for me, 25 minutes on the train are not enough time for to get in the zone to actually study and learn something. By the time I get in the zone, I already need to start packing my stuff and get ready to board off the train. Trying to cram study into a short train ride brings me more stress than it's worth so I'd probably end up scrolling on HN/reddit in that short time on the train. With WFH I can save a huge amount of time by bypassing all these dead times that don't benefit me and nor do they benefit the company I work for. It's just time wasted that's unproductive to both parties. I can quickly jump into work after I wake up, and I can quickly jump off work when I'm done and dive directly into my hobbies. I wish companies would understand this and not see WFH as a tool or justification for slacking off, forcings everyone commute every day to waste everyone's time justifying some mystical "team bonding" that happens in the office that boosts everyone's productivity. /rant over

laserlight 3y ago
I'm happy to see more people taking into account overhead in commuting. It drives me crazy when people consider commute time as the time it takes in front of the wheel.
ghaff 3y ago
On the (few) occasions when I go into the city for a customer meeting, the commuter rail takes "only" something over an hour but, really, we're talking something over two hours from getting up to walking into the office when one includes driving to the station with some slack, paying for parking, and then walking to the office/taking local subway. (Just driving takes about the same 2 hours.) A colleague of mine who lives in a different city and subscribes to the philosophy of if you don't miss one or two flights a year you're leaving too much slack jokes that he can get to our downtown office almost as quickly as I can--and he's not really off by much.
- cheschire 3y ago
  > if you don't miss one or two flights a year you're leaving too much slack Boy do I envy people who can live their life this way. I sure can't.
  - tonyedgecombe 3y ago
    I was thinking that. It would send me to an early grave if I tried it.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Me neither. For flying, it probably helps that--much as I hate 4am pickups--my car service won't really let me cut things close in any case. But I also figure it's painful anywat so why stack on stress associated with possibly being late.
  - philote 3y ago
    I don't. It sounds like constant stress.
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      I think you can only do that if you're not stressed by it and otherwise not afraid of the consequences.
      - 3y ago
gibspaulding 3y ago
Don't forget the workday is not just 8 straight hours for most folks, there's a 30 to 60 minute lunch in the middle of it which if you're in the office is 100% wasted time.
avocabros 3y ago
WFH is one solution, but it's not free in terms of collaboration costs. There's a reason no one thinks college is better remote, for example. Sure, it's fine for some jobs but it's not super obvious that it's a net positive for output. People can also live closer to work, or use other methods (biking, running, etc.) to combine exercise + commute. Many studies have indicate that people overestimate the happiness of a larger house and underestimate the daily happiness toll of a long commute
- ghaff 3y ago
  While I don't wholly disagree, that sounds a lot like arranging your life around your work rather than the other way around. Not that I have a regular uurban office anyway (my "official" office if I went in is out in the suburbs), I'm not at all sure that would lead me to live in a city apartment/condo at this point even if I did.
- piva00 3y ago
  > People can also live closer to work That's getting unrealistic since it's becoming unaffordable even for well-paid salaried jobs, it's a non-solution given the current housing situation in most of the major cities where jobs actually are. > WFH is one solution, but it's not free in terms of collaboration costs. Why should the employee bear the costs of it though? If collaboration is better in-person what can employers do to enable that? I shouldn't be paying with my lifetime for the eventual benefit the corporation gets with in-person work, I surely wasn't happier nor more productive when I had to work in crappy open-plan offices with all its distractions: people passing by, doors being open/closed, chatter from other groups, interruptions from people wanting to ask questions right-the-fucking-now, having to work 100% of the time with headphones to be able to focus, etc. On top of that I had to pay the commute both in cash and time, the only way I'm going back to the office is if there's a significant increase in pay to compensate the inconvenience. The increase in pay can come as a 4-day work week as well, then I wouldn't mind at all going back to the office even if my commute is 2h/day. A completely free day is much more valuable than the snippets of free time I get after a work day, days I don't have much energy left to do what I actually want in my life.
- deckard1 3y ago

laserlight 3y ago

I'm happy to see more people taking into account overhead in commuting. It drives me crazy when people consider commute time as the time it takes in front of the wheel.

ghaff 3y ago

On the (few) occasions when I go into the city for a customer meeting, the commuter rail takes "only" something over an hour but, really, we're talking something over two hours from getting up to walking into the office when one includes driving to the station with some slack, paying for parking, and then walking to the office/taking local subway. (Just driving takes about the same 2 hours.) A colleague of mine who lives in a different city and subscribes to the philosophy of if you don't miss one or two flights a year you're leaving too much slack jokes that he can get to our downtown office almost as quickly as I can--and he's not really off by much.

cheschire 3y ago
> if you don't miss one or two flights a year you're leaving too much slack Boy do I envy people who can live their life this way. I sure can't.
- tonyedgecombe 3y ago
  I was thinking that. It would send me to an early grave if I tried it.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Me neither. For flying, it probably helps that--much as I hate 4am pickups--my car service won't really let me cut things close in any case. But I also figure it's painful anywat so why stack on stress associated with possibly being late.
- philote 3y ago
  I don't. It sounds like constant stress.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    I think you can only do that if you're not stressed by it and otherwise not afraid of the consequences.
    - 3y ago

gibspaulding 3y ago

Don't forget the workday is not just 8 straight hours for most folks, there's a 30 to 60 minute lunch in the middle of it which if you're in the office is 100% wasted time.

avocabros 3y ago

WFH is one solution, but it's not free in terms of collaboration costs. There's a reason no one thinks college is better remote, for example. Sure, it's fine for some jobs but it's not super obvious that it's a net positive for output. People can also live closer to work, or use other methods (biking, running, etc.) to combine exercise + commute. Many studies have indicate that people overestimate the happiness of a larger house and underestimate the daily happiness toll of a long commute

ghaff 3y ago
While I don't wholly disagree, that sounds a lot like arranging your life around your work rather than the other way around. Not that I have a regular uurban office anyway (my "official" office if I went in is out in the suburbs), I'm not at all sure that would lead me to live in a city apartment/condo at this point even if I did.
piva00 3y ago
> People can also live closer to work That's getting unrealistic since it's becoming unaffordable even for well-paid salaried jobs, it's a non-solution given the current housing situation in most of the major cities where jobs actually are. > WFH is one solution, but it's not free in terms of collaboration costs. Why should the employee bear the costs of it though? If collaboration is better in-person what can employers do to enable that? I shouldn't be paying with my lifetime for the eventual benefit the corporation gets with in-person work, I surely wasn't happier nor more productive when I had to work in crappy open-plan offices with all its distractions: people passing by, doors being open/closed, chatter from other groups, interruptions from people wanting to ask questions right-the-fucking-now, having to work 100% of the time with headphones to be able to focus, etc. On top of that I had to pay the commute both in cash and time, the only way I'm going back to the office is if there's a significant increase in pay to compensate the inconvenience. The increase in pay can come as a 4-day work week as well, then I wouldn't mind at all going back to the office even if my commute is 2h/day. A completely free day is much more valuable than the snippets of free time I get after a work day, days I don't have much energy left to do what I actually want in my life.
deckard1 3y ago