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> Also in the latter way you can easily have a turnover in the team without any major hassles, you can always find mid-tier coders. And turnover you will have!

> Also in the latter way you can easily have a turnover in the team without any major hassles, you can always find mid-tier coders. And turnover you will have! =) Note that you just ballooned the cost probably 3-4x compared to keeping the team small and strong. And that is how we got to this zombiecorn land we see today. Also consider this - hiring a large team of bozos is a one-way street. You will likely never be able to hire and retain strong talent ever again. While you can always turn to hiring "mid-tier coders" when the product matures.

namaria 3y ago
All you said is true. But the number of talented programmers is very limited and concentrated. And they are quite expensive. Most companies and teams have to go the structured approach with whatever local mediocrity they can hire.
- dilyevsky 3y ago
  I disagree I guess and they are not as expensive as 4-5x more mids. > Most companies and teams have to go the structured approach with whatever local mediocrity they can hire. Yes most companies fail
  - namaria 3y ago
    Most people work in most companies that mostly fail over time. Making a living is the goal with work, building enduring value is something that few achieve.
theshrike79 3y ago
One thing to remember is that every superstar used to be a mid-tier coder. This is not an YA novel where talent is decided at an arbitrary time and that's the lane you'll hold until you retire. =) When you hire people straight off school or "mid tier" people, you can help them grow to be better and reap the benefits. If everyone will just hire the "top tier talent", their prices will inflate and the pool of top tier people will never grow.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  "don't hire a 10x team, learn to build a 10x team" or something like that.
- dilyevsky 3y ago
  There’s a pretty big difference between carefully seeding up and coming talent and deliberately hiring 40 mids like some folks are suggesting here to build their scrum teams or whatever. There aint going to be no growth here.
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    If you can determine an "up and coming talent" from a "mid" during a 1 hour job interview, you really should start up a HR consulting company. =) The only way to figure it out is to hire the ones that seem good and see who blossoms.
    - dilyevsky 3y ago
      Yes which is why your strategy doesn't work unless you're also really good at firing people (which brings its own set of challenges).
      - theshrike79 3y ago
        Over here we have a 6 month probation, during which you can fire people American-style by just saying "GTFO" with no reason required. (You can give one, but it's an art to tell the correct one, the wrong reasons will get you in trouble) Yes, there are some people who shape up for 6 months and then start slacking, but they're definitely not the norm. You should be able to evaluate a person in that time and see if their personality fits the team and whether they are a net positive for the productivity.

namaria 3y ago

All you said is true. But the number of talented programmers is very limited and concentrated. And they are quite expensive. Most companies and teams have to go the structured approach with whatever local mediocrity they can hire.

dilyevsky 3y ago
I disagree I guess and they are not as expensive as 4-5x more mids. > Most companies and teams have to go the structured approach with whatever local mediocrity they can hire. Yes most companies fail
- namaria 3y ago
  Most people work in most companies that mostly fail over time. Making a living is the goal with work, building enduring value is something that few achieve.

theshrike79 3y ago

One thing to remember is that every superstar used to be a mid-tier coder. This is not an YA novel where talent is decided at an arbitrary time and that's the lane you'll hold until you retire. =) When you hire people straight off school or "mid tier" people, you can help them grow to be better and reap the benefits. If everyone will just hire the "top tier talent", their prices will inflate and the pool of top tier people will never grow.

red-iron-pine 3y ago
"don't hire a 10x team, learn to build a 10x team" or something like that.
dilyevsky 3y ago
There’s a pretty big difference between carefully seeding up and coming talent and deliberately hiring 40 mids like some folks are suggesting here to build their scrum teams or whatever. There aint going to be no growth here.
- theshrike79 3y ago
  If you can determine an "up and coming talent" from a "mid" during a 1 hour job interview, you really should start up a HR consulting company. =) The only way to figure it out is to hire the ones that seem good and see who blossoms.
  - dilyevsky 3y ago
    Yes which is why your strategy doesn't work unless you're also really good at firing people (which brings its own set of challenges).
    - theshrike79 3y ago
      Over here we have a 6 month probation, during which you can fire people American-style by just saying "GTFO" with no reason required. (You can give one, but it's an art to tell the correct one, the wrong reasons will get you in trouble) Yes, there are some people who shape up for 6 months and then start slacking, but they're definitely not the norm. You should be able to evaluate a person in that time and see if their personality fits the team and whether they are a net positive for the productivity.