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The US didn't have anything to do with evergrande afaik, and paying for property before it's built is a bad idea. But China can still try to deal with this by b

by rnk 3y ago

The US didn't have anything to do with evergrande afaik, and paying for property before it's built is a bad idea. But China can still try to deal with this by blaming the US for all ills and pushing for war with Taiwan to distract everyone - that works almost every time!

FooBarWidget 3y ago
Okay so where is all the media blaming the economic issues on US? I sure haven't seen any on TV.
- rnk 3y ago
  I don't know that it's happening now, I was making a suggestion that it could happen. If you're having economic troubles in a country, especially in an authoritarian country, blaming the outside world for your troubles can be a smart thing. No one can really argue with you in a dictatorship - if anyone is powerful enough to contest with you, you just kick them out of the ruling party, just like what actually happened in China with Xi removing Hu Jintao in a very public way at the party Congress. Another example is Russia threatening to invade the smaller countries around them if they make treaties with Western countries, and then invading them for being "bad" like in Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, etc.
  - FooBarWidget 3y ago
    It "could" happen. On the other hand, it could also not happen. This is pure speculation on your part. Whatever happened to looking at evidence? This isn't the first time China has had economic trouble.
    - rnk 3y ago
      The thing that makes it much more likely than could is it is the official goal of the communist party to unify with Taiwan, and they say they will do it by force if necessary. That makes it a matter of time, waiting for some weakness in Taiwan or the lack of will in the countries supporting them. If a much more powerful country says that they will take you over by force if you don't surrender, that's a pretty concerning position to be in.
      - FooBarWidget 3y ago
        China's goal of unifying with Taiwan also existed the last few times they had economic troubles. Did they went to war with Taiwan do deflect economic trouble back then?
        rnk 3y ago
        They did not of course. China looks to be playing the long game to me. But China's economic issues are the most severe since they began their incredible time of growth and productivity increases. Best in the world ever as far as I know. But now they have terrible unemployment, so bad they stopped reported stats on that and some other areas, plus the shrinking population long term. I think up until now, for the last 30 years (?) they were on the upswing and they looked better and better. Now they are strong, but having serious economic challenges, more than past few years. The unneeded infrastructure will start to matter more. I really hope they can keep it together and not start a war. But it's such an incredible temptation for countries in this position. They are close to their maximum power, in 10 years I expect the worker shortage to really start to hurt.
        FooBarWidget 3y ago
        Economic troubles in the late 80s were much more severe than today. You need to look at how things are on the ground instead of sensational western media reports. They've preached a permanent collapse of China every single year for the past 20 years. Go back 10 years and it's the same doom and gloom in the media, you just weren't as flooded by those reports as today. If anything causes a war with Taiwan, it's all this talk about how they are going to start a war with Taiwan and subsequently sending military support to Taiwan "to defend them". China can accept (and has accepted, for decades) the status quo but not deviations from it. Taiwanese polls say that stunts like Pelosi's visit made the situation more dangerous. This is literally a self-fulfilling prophecy here. Wise leaders from the past came up with the One China Principle as a way to keep the peace, which it has for decades, but the US is rapidly breaking that construct while gaslighting the other party.
        3y ago

by rnk 3y ago

FooBarWidget 3y ago

Okay so where is all the media blaming the economic issues on US? I sure haven't seen any on TV.

rnk 3y ago
I don't know that it's happening now, I was making a suggestion that it could happen. If you're having economic troubles in a country, especially in an authoritarian country, blaming the outside world for your troubles can be a smart thing. No one can really argue with you in a dictatorship - if anyone is powerful enough to contest with you, you just kick them out of the ruling party, just like what actually happened in China with Xi removing Hu Jintao in a very public way at the party Congress. Another example is Russia threatening to invade the smaller countries around them if they make treaties with Western countries, and then invading them for being "bad" like in Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, etc.
- FooBarWidget 3y ago
  It "could" happen. On the other hand, it could also not happen. This is pure speculation on your part. Whatever happened to looking at evidence? This isn't the first time China has had economic trouble.
  - rnk 3y ago
    The thing that makes it much more likely than could is it is the official goal of the communist party to unify with Taiwan, and they say they will do it by force if necessary. That makes it a matter of time, waiting for some weakness in Taiwan or the lack of will in the countries supporting them. If a much more powerful country says that they will take you over by force if you don't surrender, that's a pretty concerning position to be in.
    - FooBarWidget 3y ago
      China's goal of unifying with Taiwan also existed the last few times they had economic troubles. Did they went to war with Taiwan do deflect economic trouble back then?
      - rnk 3y ago
        They did not of course. China looks to be playing the long game to me. But China's economic issues are the most severe since they began their incredible time of growth and productivity increases. Best in the world ever as far as I know. But now they have terrible unemployment, so bad they stopped reported stats on that and some other areas, plus the shrinking population long term. I think up until now, for the last 30 years (?) they were on the upswing and they looked better and better. Now they are strong, but having serious economic challenges, more than past few years. The unneeded infrastructure will start to matter more. I really hope they can keep it together and not start a war. But it's such an incredible temptation for countries in this position. They are close to their maximum power, in 10 years I expect the worker shortage to really start to hurt.
        FooBarWidget 3y ago
        Economic troubles in the late 80s were much more severe than today. You need to look at how things are on the ground instead of sensational western media reports. They've preached a permanent collapse of China every single year for the past 20 years. Go back 10 years and it's the same doom and gloom in the media, you just weren't as flooded by those reports as today. If anything causes a war with Taiwan, it's all this talk about how they are going to start a war with Taiwan and subsequently sending military support to Taiwan "to defend them". China can accept (and has accepted, for decades) the status quo but not deviations from it. Taiwanese polls say that stunts like Pelosi's visit made the situation more dangerous. This is literally a self-fulfilling prophecy here. Wise leaders from the past came up with the One China Principle as a way to keep the peace, which it has for decades, but the US is rapidly breaking that construct while gaslighting the other party.
        3y ago