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On top of that, the car requirement is in effect a gigantic tax: every person has to pay tens of thousands of dollars just to own a car, and many thousands to t

On top of that, the car requirement is in effect a gigantic tax: every person has to pay tens of thousands of dollars just to own a car, and many thousands to tens of thousands every year to operate and insure and maintain it. And that's a direct tax on every person. Then there's the maintenance costs for all the roadways needed to support all these cars, all the parking lots to park them in, etc. All that comes out of either direct taxes on people, or an indirect tax in the form of higher prices. Finally, this doesn't even consider the climate consequences of everyone driving around in a 6000-pound SUV; all these cars spewing emissions are turning those suburbs into very *un*comfortable locations with deadly heat waves. But good luck getting any Americans like the OP to understand any of this.

cyberax 3y ago
> On top of that, the car requirement is in effect a gigantic tax: every person has to pay tens of thousands of dollars just to own a car, and many thousands to tens of thousands every year to operate and insure and maintain it. And that's a direct tax on every person. Wait until you hear how much public transit infrastructure costs. You'll faint from shock! > Finally, this doesn't even consider the climate consequences of everyone driving around in a 6000-pound SUV What if you drive a small EV instead? And here's the CO2 footprint data for transit: https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint > But good luck getting any Americans like the OP to understand any of this. I guess you never even tried to question your assumptions.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  >Wait until you hear how much public transit infrastructure costs. You'll faint from shock! Considering how cheap it is for me to take the subway anywhere I want in Tokyo every day, it's not that much. Compared to roads, highways, etc. in sufficient size for every single person in the city to drive a car everywhere, public transit infrastructure costs are cheap. Strangely in America, though, drivers aren't required to pay every time they use those roads. Seems like socialism to me. >And here's the CO2 footprint data for transit: https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint Yeah, it says right in your link that transit is the greenest way to travel, other than walking or bicycling (which should be pretty obvious). >I guess you never even tried to question your assumptions. I guess you've never questioned yours, or ever been outside the US even.
  - cyberax 3y ago
    > Considering how cheap it is for me to take the subway anywhere I want in Tokyo every day, it's not that much. Nope. You're just free-riding on taxes paid by other hard-working people, nothing is "free". > Strangely in America, though, drivers aren't required to pay every time they use those roads. Seems like socialism to me. In the state where I live, most of road maintenance is done with taxes based on road usage: https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/state-infrastructure-spending/ https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/state-infrastructur... > Yeah, it says right in your link that transit is the greenest way to travel, other than walking or bicycling (which should be pretty obvious). Reading comprehension much? Bus: 105g/km, small EV: 46 g/km, national rail: 41 g/km, London underground: 31 g/km. Basically, we just need to double the average occupancy of cars (easily doable with mild carpooling and van-type self-driving taxis), and they'll be more efficient than even subways. > I guess you've never questioned yours, or ever been outside the US even. LOL. I speak 5 languages (Russian, Ukrainian, English, German, Mandarin Chinese) and I got my first driving license at the age of 30. Before moving to the US, I lived in several European countries. I know exactly how much transit sucks compared to cars in well-designed cities.
    - midoridensha 3y ago
      >Nope. You're just free-riding on taxes paid by other hard-working people, nothing is "free". Tokyo's trains are paid by user fares, not taxes. You obviously know nothing about Japan. >In the state where I live, most of road maintenance is done with taxes based on road usage The taxes don't come from the drivers. Try putting tolls on all the highways and see what happens. >Basically, we just need to double the average occupancy of cars (easily doable with mild carpooling and van-type self-driving taxis), and they'll be more efficient than even subways. This is stupid. They've tried carpooling for decades in the US and it hasn't gone anywhere. Turns out that it's just too inconvenient when everyone is so spread out. >I know exactly how much transit sucks compared to cars in well-designed cities. You've never lived in a well-designed city.
      - cyberax 3y ago
        > Tokyo's trains are paid by user fares, not taxes. No, they are not: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-05-18/the-secret-to-tokyo-s-rail-success https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-05-18/the-secre... - the user fees are barely a third (as usual for transit). > The taxes don't come from the drivers. Try putting tolls on all the highways and see what happens. The funds for road maintenance here absolutely come from drivers, in the form of fuel taxes, car tab fees, and toll lanes/bridges. See the explanation in the article. > This is stupid. They've tried carpooling for decades in the US and it hasn't gone anywhere. Turns out that it's just too inconvenient when everyone is so spread out. About 9% of people carpool. And this requires coordination, with driverless taxis you don't need any. Just request a "shared ride" from the app. > You've never lived in a well-designed city. I lived in Houston for a while. I couldn't stand the weather, but the city itself is amazingly well-designed. Nothing like miserable European cities. You, quite clearly, have not yet dared to walk out of your assigned "15-minute neighborhood".

cyberax 3y ago

> On top of that, the car requirement is in effect a gigantic tax: every person has to pay tens of thousands of dollars just to own a car, and many thousands to tens of thousands every year to operate and insure and maintain it. And that's a direct tax on every person. Wait until you hear how much public transit infrastructure costs. You'll faint from shock! > Finally, this doesn't even consider the climate consequences of everyone driving around in a 6000-pound SUV What if you drive a small EV instead? And here's the CO2 footprint data for transit: https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint > But good luck getting any Americans like the OP to understand any of this. I guess you never even tried to question your assumptions.

midoridensha 3y ago
>Wait until you hear how much public transit infrastructure costs. You'll faint from shock! Considering how cheap it is for me to take the subway anywhere I want in Tokyo every day, it's not that much. Compared to roads, highways, etc. in sufficient size for every single person in the city to drive a car everywhere, public transit infrastructure costs are cheap. Strangely in America, though, drivers aren't required to pay every time they use those roads. Seems like socialism to me. >And here's the CO2 footprint data for transit: https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint Yeah, it says right in your link that transit is the greenest way to travel, other than walking or bicycling (which should be pretty obvious). >I guess you never even tried to question your assumptions. I guess you've never questioned yours, or ever been outside the US even.
- cyberax 3y ago
  > Considering how cheap it is for me to take the subway anywhere I want in Tokyo every day, it's not that much. Nope. You're just free-riding on taxes paid by other hard-working people, nothing is "free". > Strangely in America, though, drivers aren't required to pay every time they use those roads. Seems like socialism to me. In the state where I live, most of road maintenance is done with taxes based on road usage: https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/state-infrastructure-spending/ https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/state-infrastructur... > Yeah, it says right in your link that transit is the greenest way to travel, other than walking or bicycling (which should be pretty obvious). Reading comprehension much? Bus: 105g/km, small EV: 46 g/km, national rail: 41 g/km, London underground: 31 g/km. Basically, we just need to double the average occupancy of cars (easily doable with mild carpooling and van-type self-driving taxis), and they'll be more efficient than even subways. > I guess you've never questioned yours, or ever been outside the US even. LOL. I speak 5 languages (Russian, Ukrainian, English, German, Mandarin Chinese) and I got my first driving license at the age of 30. Before moving to the US, I lived in several European countries. I know exactly how much transit sucks compared to cars in well-designed cities.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    >Nope. You're just free-riding on taxes paid by other hard-working people, nothing is "free". Tokyo's trains are paid by user fares, not taxes. You obviously know nothing about Japan. >In the state where I live, most of road maintenance is done with taxes based on road usage The taxes don't come from the drivers. Try putting tolls on all the highways and see what happens. >Basically, we just need to double the average occupancy of cars (easily doable with mild carpooling and van-type self-driving taxis), and they'll be more efficient than even subways. This is stupid. They've tried carpooling for decades in the US and it hasn't gone anywhere. Turns out that it's just too inconvenient when everyone is so spread out. >I know exactly how much transit sucks compared to cars in well-designed cities. You've never lived in a well-designed city.
    - cyberax 3y ago
      > Tokyo's trains are paid by user fares, not taxes. No, they are not: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-05-18/the-secret-to-tokyo-s-rail-success https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-05-18/the-secre... - the user fees are barely a third (as usual for transit). > The taxes don't come from the drivers. Try putting tolls on all the highways and see what happens. The funds for road maintenance here absolutely come from drivers, in the form of fuel taxes, car tab fees, and toll lanes/bridges. See the explanation in the article. > This is stupid. They've tried carpooling for decades in the US and it hasn't gone anywhere. Turns out that it's just too inconvenient when everyone is so spread out. About 9% of people carpool. And this requires coordination, with driverless taxis you don't need any. Just request a "shared ride" from the app. > You've never lived in a well-designed city. I lived in Houston for a while. I couldn't stand the weather, but the city itself is amazingly well-designed. Nothing like miserable European cities. You, quite clearly, have not yet dared to walk out of your assigned "15-minute neighborhood".