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> everyone wants to "support" the police no matter what. > many leftists, who are generally very supportive of labor unions, still want to "defund the police"

> everyone wants to "support" the police no matter what. > many leftists, who are generally very supportive of labor unions, still want to "defund the police" Seems like one of these claims needs adjustment. Also noted that defunding the police usually means replacing the police with other roles that are more in line with community needs. So there's still a need for labor unions. "They have argued that cities should instead prioritize the programs that have been defunded over the years that would address root causes of crime and poverty, like education, healthcare and homeless services." https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/07/us-cities-defund-police-transferring-money-community https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/07/us-cities-de...

lapcat 3y ago
> Seems like one of these claims needs adjustment. Well, yes, I didn't mean literally everyone. It was a turn of phrase, a hyperbole. > "They have argued that cities should instead prioritize the programs that have been defunded over the years that would address root causes of crime and poverty, like education, healthcare and homeless services." Yes. Police and prisons are actually vastly more expensive than other, nonviolent community investments to reduce crime. But efficiency and cost effectiveness aren't really the point of "law enforcement". Rather, to borrow a phrase, the cruelty is the point. Anyway, my point is that the power of the police unions is due to the public support for the police, not simply their collective bargaining power. Few other unions have as much power.
- tchaffee 3y ago
  > my point is that the power of the police unions is due to the public support for the police, not simply their collective bargaining power. I would guess there are other factors. The NHS is hugely popular in the UK, and the workers unions are not as powerful US police unions. Like most things, there are probably a lot of small details that make it complex.

lapcat 3y ago

> Seems like one of these claims needs adjustment. Well, yes, I didn't mean literally everyone. It was a turn of phrase, a hyperbole. > "They have argued that cities should instead prioritize the programs that have been defunded over the years that would address root causes of crime and poverty, like education, healthcare and homeless services." Yes. Police and prisons are actually vastly more expensive than other, nonviolent community investments to reduce crime. But efficiency and cost effectiveness aren't really the point of "law enforcement". Rather, to borrow a phrase, the cruelty is the point. Anyway, my point is that the power of the police unions is due to the public support for the police, not simply their collective bargaining power. Few other unions have as much power.

tchaffee 3y ago
> my point is that the power of the police unions is due to the public support for the police, not simply their collective bargaining power. I would guess there are other factors. The NHS is hugely popular in the UK, and the workers unions are not as powerful US police unions. Like most things, there are probably a lot of small details that make it complex.