3 ms·

$1K for a palm hat? A quote from PT Barnum springs to mind.

by tiahura 3y ago

jvandonsel 3y ago
Up to $40k!
- User23 3y ago
  People will pay that much for some mass produced Gucci crap. Meanwhile these hats are handmade works of art made by people who are fairly compensated for their labor.
- danbruc 3y ago
  3600 Simón Espinal $40,000 Must be commissioned, time 8 months minimum It is not clear how much of the time is just waiting time for materials and shipping or a suitable weaver becoming available to do the job, but I would not be surprised if someone would actually spend half a year working on that hat. With that in mind, $40k no longer seems an unreasonable price. Whether you really need a hat that takes that much time to make is another question, but then again the things one really needs are very few and most things we buy are for convenience or aesthetics, so why not?
  - denton-scratch 3y ago
    > Whether you really need a hat that takes that much time to make is another question "Need" probably isn't the word that is applicable. Nobody needs a hat that costs as much as a small apartment; if the sun is punishing, you can always get away with a knotted handkerchief. It's not even a question of showing off; if you drive a Ferrari or a Roller, everyone knows they're expensive. But it's hard to tell without close inspection whether some guy's panama cost £200, or "if it's really the expensive kind"[0] [0] Bob Dylan, /Brand New Leopardskin Pillbox Hat/
malablaster 3y ago
The prices set themselves based on market conditions, so to call the buyer suckers is reductive.
- TylerE 3y ago
  Still does make a url that currently (but is not guaranteed to in the future) points to an ape kept worth millions.
- ftxbro 3y ago
  the market conditions are that we got some suckers out here
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - poulsbohemian 3y ago
    While I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a hat, let me throw out an alternative idea... fashion seems to have changed in the past decade... whereas people once felt compelled to buy new suits / ties / shits / skirts etc to keep up with changing fashions, today fashion has become much more of a mishmash of styles, with much greater individualism. There are items that I have bought at thrift that are older than I am, but I believe will continue to remain stylish for many years to come because they are especially well-made. Some of my sweaters are a good example of this - 40+ years old but if I were to sell them would garner hundreds $$ easily. I fully expect my son to have them someday after I'm gone. With that frame of reference, I'm finding I'm buying fewer items, but willing to spend a bit more on them, because I expect many of my clothing items to last decades because they are well-made, quality garments. Other items, such as for yard work, etc I buy cheaply because I know they are going to get destroyed anyway. So, that's a long way of saying - if someone can afford what are essentially heirloom pieces, I can't really call them a sucker if they believe the item is worth that to them.
version_five 3y ago
There was a link to an "explanation" of the costs, but I got a 404. Does anyone have an explanation of why anyone would value hats this much? Are they a collector's item, just rare, some kind of American Psycho style "my hat is embossed with singed ryegrass" status thing?
- pas 3y ago
  it's entirely hand-made, the process takes months, involves 5-6 people, etc. yes, of course it doesn't make sense unless you really think it matters or have quasi-unlimited money. see: https://www.brentblack.com/montecristi-panama-hat-prices-explained.html https://www.brentblack.com/montecristi-panama-hat-prices-exp... and https://www.brentblack.com/pages/tour2_page_01.html https://www.brentblack.com/pages/tour2_page_01.html
- esquivalience 3y ago
  He goes into great detail about the fine-ness of the weave, and projects and business practices designed to reward good craftsmanship and promote the art (and craft) of weaving. It's a joy to read because he writes well about something he loves.
- tiffanyg 3y ago
  Several points: 1) Crafting some of these hats require an incredible level of human skill and time - i.e., a sort of fixed cost in time for someone to reach that level, and then a variable cost in crafting one hat with that skill. This page lists, for example, "18 Master Weavers who could actually weave one, and it would take months to do it." for the category of Super Fino. Thousands of dollars for such a hat sounds quite reasonable. 2) These are actual physical items with real function and form. Some of the function is in the form. Some of the function is in the intangible "status symbol" realm that nevertheless has a direct impact in the real world. Whether cultural, subconscious, etc., individual "presentation" can make a difference in business dealings (getting a contract vs. not), attracting the interest of desirable partners for romance &/ family formation, etc. 3) Our economics are always screwy ... the drive for efficiency is a mixed bag. On the one hand, it's great (focusing purely on provision for humans, in needs and perhaps a bit further along in, say, "Maslow's hierarchy") to be able to produce more goods and services (perhaps, there are further issues there I'll avoid for now) less expensively, so more people can have needs and wants and all that met. But, of course, the flip side is that there are fewer jobs available (at some point, another complexity I'll sidestep going into non-germane to primary point depth on). This can drive a more extreme "bimodal distribution" to prices - those who continue to use "traditional methods" have to charge not only more, comparatively (and in light of general inflation), but, more in a more absolute sense due to lower volumes, etc. 4) Of course, some of this is also likely getting into the realm of items like NFTs, iPhones, etc. - the purposeful (market) positioning by those selling as "luxury" or "status" items. I.e., more intentional, where, of course, comparisons to Barnum and general derision by people "on the outside" is a normal sort of "organic" byproduct that perhaps seemingly paradoxically can actually further the symbolism and strength of marketing / "story". 5) Apparently, these types of hats bear some resemblance to trees. Next time I see someone wearing one, I might cut their head off so I can "count the rings" (inside the hat). ;) J/k on the last point. Probably. Kek. Edit: my random number generator (aka, "brain") informed me in the past several minutes that it is required (as regards "the service") for me to add this take on marketing from the great Bill Hicks: https://youtu.be/tHEOGrkhDp0?si=TPnIwP0HymFYZZkC https://youtu.be/tHEOGrkhDp0?si=TPnIwP0HymFYZZkC - which, of course, gave the universe another opportunity to give me the finger (why yes, I DO want to know about how I can meet the one for me "on Bumble", ugh). 'And thus ends the lesson' and general kvetching session, with this video that fairly well captures my feelings these days. Enjoy!
squarefoot 3y ago
$1K for a palm hat that conveys the impression that you're part of a class of people that can spend $1K for a palm hat.
hadlock 3y ago
Have you seen what people are paying for watches these days?
- pixelatedindex 3y ago
  Doesn’t that depend on the watch? A Seiko 5 is a classy mechanical and costs about $140. Probably one of the best entry points around. I wonder what the Panama Hat equivalent is for that?
  - smcl 3y ago
    +1 for the Seiko 5. It may by now considered to be a meme watch (I've no idea, I just know it became famous outside the watch community too so it may be considered a bit "normie") but if I didn't buy and get a lot of use out of my Apple Watch I'd be wearing my Seiko 5 all the time, and would have likely picked up another. There are a few models but they are all, to my eyes, good looking and mine is pretty solid.

$1K for a palm hat? A quote from PT Barnum springs to mind.

jvandonsel 3y ago

Up to $40k!

User23 3y ago
People will pay that much for some mass produced Gucci crap. Meanwhile these hats are handmade works of art made by people who are fairly compensated for their labor.
danbruc 3y ago
3600 Simón Espinal $40,000 Must be commissioned, time 8 months minimum It is not clear how much of the time is just waiting time for materials and shipping or a suitable weaver becoming available to do the job, but I would not be surprised if someone would actually spend half a year working on that hat. With that in mind, $40k no longer seems an unreasonable price. Whether you really need a hat that takes that much time to make is another question, but then again the things one really needs are very few and most things we buy are for convenience or aesthetics, so why not?
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  > Whether you really need a hat that takes that much time to make is another question "Need" probably isn't the word that is applicable. Nobody needs a hat that costs as much as a small apartment; if the sun is punishing, you can always get away with a knotted handkerchief. It's not even a question of showing off; if you drive a Ferrari or a Roller, everyone knows they're expensive. But it's hard to tell without close inspection whether some guy's panama cost £200, or "if it's really the expensive kind"[0] [0] Bob Dylan, /Brand New Leopardskin Pillbox Hat/

malablaster 3y ago

The prices set themselves based on market conditions, so to call the buyer suckers is reductive.

TylerE 3y ago
Still does make a url that currently (but is not guaranteed to in the future) points to an ape kept worth millions.
ftxbro 3y ago
the market conditions are that we got some suckers out here
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- poulsbohemian 3y ago
  While I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a hat, let me throw out an alternative idea... fashion seems to have changed in the past decade... whereas people once felt compelled to buy new suits / ties / shits / skirts etc to keep up with changing fashions, today fashion has become much more of a mishmash of styles, with much greater individualism. There are items that I have bought at thrift that are older than I am, but I believe will continue to remain stylish for many years to come because they are especially well-made. Some of my sweaters are a good example of this - 40+ years old but if I were to sell them would garner hundreds $$ easily. I fully expect my son to have them someday after I'm gone. With that frame of reference, I'm finding I'm buying fewer items, but willing to spend a bit more on them, because I expect many of my clothing items to last decades because they are well-made, quality garments. Other items, such as for yard work, etc I buy cheaply because I know they are going to get destroyed anyway. So, that's a long way of saying - if someone can afford what are essentially heirloom pieces, I can't really call them a sucker if they believe the item is worth that to them.

version_five 3y ago

There was a link to an "explanation" of the costs, but I got a 404. Does anyone have an explanation of why anyone would value hats this much? Are they a collector's item, just rare, some kind of American Psycho style "my hat is embossed with singed ryegrass" status thing?

pas 3y ago
it's entirely hand-made, the process takes months, involves 5-6 people, etc. yes, of course it doesn't make sense unless you really think it matters or have quasi-unlimited money. see: https://www.brentblack.com/montecristi-panama-hat-prices-explained.html https://www.brentblack.com/montecristi-panama-hat-prices-exp... and https://www.brentblack.com/pages/tour2_page_01.html https://www.brentblack.com/pages/tour2_page_01.html
esquivalience 3y ago
He goes into great detail about the fine-ness of the weave, and projects and business practices designed to reward good craftsmanship and promote the art (and craft) of weaving. It's a joy to read because he writes well about something he loves.
tiffanyg 3y ago
Several points: 1) Crafting some of these hats require an incredible level of human skill and time - i.e., a sort of fixed cost in time for someone to reach that level, and then a variable cost in crafting one hat with that skill. This page lists, for example, "18 Master Weavers who could actually weave one, and it would take months to do it." for the category of Super Fino. Thousands of dollars for such a hat sounds quite reasonable. 2) These are actual physical items with real function and form. Some of the function is in the form. Some of the function is in the intangible "status symbol" realm that nevertheless has a direct impact in the real world. Whether cultural, subconscious, etc., individual "presentation" can make a difference in business dealings (getting a contract vs. not), attracting the interest of desirable partners for romance &/ family formation, etc. 3) Our economics are always screwy ... the drive for efficiency is a mixed bag. On the one hand, it's great (focusing purely on provision for humans, in needs and perhaps a bit further along in, say, "Maslow's hierarchy") to be able to produce more goods and services (perhaps, there are further issues there I'll avoid for now) less expensively, so more people can have needs and wants and all that met. But, of course, the flip side is that there are fewer jobs available (at some point, another complexity I'll sidestep going into non-germane to primary point depth on). This can drive a more extreme "bimodal distribution" to prices - those who continue to use "traditional methods" have to charge not only more, comparatively (and in light of general inflation), but, more in a more absolute sense due to lower volumes, etc. 4) Of course, some of this is also likely getting into the realm of items like NFTs, iPhones, etc. - the purposeful (market) positioning by those selling as "luxury" or "status" items. I.e., more intentional, where, of course, comparisons to Barnum and general derision by people "on the outside" is a normal sort of "organic" byproduct that perhaps seemingly paradoxically can actually further the symbolism and strength of marketing / "story". 5) Apparently, these types of hats bear some resemblance to trees. Next time I see someone wearing one, I might cut their head off so I can "count the rings" (inside the hat). ;) J/k on the last point. Probably. Kek. Edit: my random number generator (aka, "brain") informed me in the past several minutes that it is required (as regards "the service") for me to add this take on marketing from the great Bill Hicks: https://youtu.be/tHEOGrkhDp0?si=TPnIwP0HymFYZZkC https://youtu.be/tHEOGrkhDp0?si=TPnIwP0HymFYZZkC - which, of course, gave the universe another opportunity to give me the finger (why yes, I DO want to know about how I can meet the one for me "on Bumble", ugh). 'And thus ends the lesson' and general kvetching session, with this video that fairly well captures my feelings these days. Enjoy!

squarefoot 3y ago

$1K for a palm hat that conveys the impression that you're part of a class of people that can spend $1K for a palm hat.

hadlock 3y ago

Have you seen what people are paying for watches these days?

pixelatedindex 3y ago
Doesn’t that depend on the watch? A Seiko 5 is a classy mechanical and costs about $140. Probably one of the best entry points around. I wonder what the Panama Hat equivalent is for that?
- smcl 3y ago
  +1 for the Seiko 5. It may by now considered to be a meme watch (I've no idea, I just know it became famous outside the watch community too so it may be considered a bit "normie") but if I didn't buy and get a lot of use out of my Apple Watch I'd be wearing my Seiko 5 all the time, and would have likely picked up another. There are a few models but they are all, to my eyes, good looking and mine is pretty solid.