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I think most software engineers are a little uncomfortable with the whole arrangement of employment to begin with, and any backlash against unions is the backla
by jrockway 3y ago
I think most software engineers are a little uncomfortable with the whole arrangement of employment to begin with, and any backlash against unions is the backlash from having to face this somewhat subservient reality. The origin story of getting a computer, some library books, and spending 10,000 hours alone with your computer seems pretty common. With that mental model, why would you want someone who isn't a software engineer interfering with your career? You built it yourself, and you don't need any help. I think that's where the attitude comes from, and it's probably something worth talking yourself out of. (Nobody is discounting their hard work, but the more BS other people deal with, the more time you can spend alone with your text editor.)
The other thing that people probably worry about are protecting the net negative members on the team. Those that make more work for the team, derail meetings, block things from being submitted, etc. Nobody wants to hear "well our contract doesn't allow us to fire them".
Like all engineering, there isn't a solution with no downsides.
I think unions deserve serious consideration. Our working conditions are not perfect (know any software engineers with wrist problems, back problems, or sleep apnea?). Our benefits are not perfect (love being forced to take a mandatory vacation every year paid out of my personal vacation balance). And, we have pretty much zero sway among the government. (Do you think that if attorneys were paid in illiquid shares that every time you received them, you'd have to send a hand-signed letter to the IRS?) There is certainly something to be gained; software prints money, and the people that make it deserve their fair share.
Even on HN, commenters are shocked by the FAANG salaries, but you know lots of people are making way more money. Someone just paid $7M for the two story house behind my apartment. I'm guessing they're not a couple of software engineers. Why is that? Is it because we self-sabotage? Is there not that much money in software after all?
Someone should look into all of this, but as long as we see ourselves as individuals and not a group, we will be easy to ignore.
(Uh oh, now I sound like a communist.)
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago> Our working conditions are not perfect (know any software engineers with wrist problems, back problems, or sleep apnea?). Our benefits are not perfect (love being forced to take a mandatory vacation every year paid out of my personal vacation balance). Are these not things you would expect to be able to negotiate on your own? Who are you working for that would rather lose you as an employee than provide you with an ergonomic keyboard? > And, we have pretty much zero sway among the government. (Do you think that if attorneys were paid in illiquid shares that every time you received them, you'd have to send a hand-signed letter to the IRS?) This is the most significant thing that unions actually do, but it seems weird to bring them in for the things they're "supposed to do" (negotiating with employers), when you don't really want that (they protect bad team members), because what you really want is something else. And in that role a union doesn't really fit here, because you have interests shared with people who wouldn't be in it. Even if you have the same legislative goals as every other software developer, what sense does it make to unionize your own tiny startup or small business, or some entity which is already majority-owned by the employees? Maybe what software developers need is not a union, but a PAC?