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Stem cell research has a lot of controversy due to the fact some years ago you could only get stem cells from embryos. For some people (like the Catholic Church

by eb0la 3y ago

Stem cell research has a lot of controversy due to the fact some years ago you could only get stem cells from embryos. For some people (like the Catholic Church) that was a huge ethical issue. Now it is not.

smeej 3y ago
Embryonic stem cell research has always been problematic for the Catholic Church, yes, and it will remain so (although there's also a strong argument even from Catholic ethicists that developing things like vaccines from stem cell lines where the contributing embryo died in the 1970s can be licit, because the participation in the death of the embryo is so remote and the benefit potentially so high). Research on adult stem cells or induced pluripotent stem cells already didn't face the same objections. It sounds like this is more about an improvement in the technique of inducing pluripotency that could reduce negative complications, rather than a whole new unobjectionable procedure that hadn't existed before.
- dmvdoug 3y ago
  Bit much to say ESC research was “always” problematic. The notion that life begins at conception was not one that, e.g., St. Thomas Aquinas agreed with. Analyze the ethical issues using his views about life beginning with quickening and you might reach different conclusions than those of the Church today.
  - smeej 3y ago
    ESC research hasn't always existed, but the whole time it has, it has always been problematic. Thomas predates ESC research by centuries--quite a few of them, actually. ESC research has always been problematic.
    - dmvdoug 3y ago
      I thought that this was such an obvious point that I would not have to make it, but it just goes to show that whatever HN’s comment policies may be about civility and substance, they don’t seem to require a quite basic application of the Principle of Charity. So let me spell it out. Yes, I am aware that Saint Thomas Aquinas was a medieval theologian and that embryonic stem cell research did not exist at the time. Maybe you want to argue that there is some necessary connection between ESC research and the period of Church history where the development of Church moral doctrine treats life as beginning with conception. If so, great, argue that. Otherwise, “ESC research has always been problematic” is just a boring claim about the screamingly obvious. Because there are other potential moral or ethical frameworks within which you could evaluate ESC. Or perhaps you would say that those frameworks are not official Church doctrine, thus they’re not Catholic, even if they were taught by saints and Doctors of the Church. If so, you’re also probably the kind of person who says that someone who disagrees with the Church about the morality of contraception isn’t really Catholic, no matter what they say or do on Sundays. But then I congratulate you on erasing the vast majority of Catholics worldwide.
      - smeej 3y ago
        Why on earth would you cite the ethical standards of a 13th century author whose views were based on 13th century scientific understanding when commenting on a living institution's assessment of a 20th century technology? Thomas' views on embryology had long since been superseded in Catholic moral theology once the field of embryology advanced. Thomas represented the best of Catholic theology for his time, but it would be monumentally ignorant to act like the Catholic Church is somehow still beholden to the the moral conclusions he drew from incomplete scientific understanding. > Maybe you want to argue that there is some necessary connection between ESC research and the period of Church history where the development of Church moral doctrine treats life as beginning with conception. Of course I do. The necessary connection is that that's when ESC was created. It couldn't have been created without the very developments in embryology that rendered Thomas' conclusions moot. Talk about something so obvious it shouldn't need to be said.
        dmvdoug 3y ago
        > it would be monumentally ignorant to act like the Catholic Church is somehow still beholden I guess it’s a good thing I didn’t do that, then.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but ESCs have been more or less 100% hype and "future promise" with no actual current uses coming to fruition. In contrast, adult stem cells have been used for a lot of treatments and a lot of uses. For me, this casts doubt on the whole push to eliminate restrictions on ESCs.

by eb0la 3y ago

smeej 3y ago

Embryonic stem cell research has always been problematic for the Catholic Church, yes, and it will remain so (although there's also a strong argument even from Catholic ethicists that developing things like vaccines from stem cell lines where the contributing embryo died in the 1970s can be licit, because the participation in the death of the embryo is so remote and the benefit potentially so high). Research on adult stem cells or induced pluripotent stem cells already didn't face the same objections. It sounds like this is more about an improvement in the technique of inducing pluripotency that could reduce negative complications, rather than a whole new unobjectionable procedure that hadn't existed before.

dmvdoug 3y ago
Bit much to say ESC research was “always” problematic. The notion that life begins at conception was not one that, e.g., St. Thomas Aquinas agreed with. Analyze the ethical issues using his views about life beginning with quickening and you might reach different conclusions than those of the Church today.
- smeej 3y ago
  ESC research hasn't always existed, but the whole time it has, it has always been problematic. Thomas predates ESC research by centuries--quite a few of them, actually. ESC research has always been problematic.
  - dmvdoug 3y ago
    I thought that this was such an obvious point that I would not have to make it, but it just goes to show that whatever HN’s comment policies may be about civility and substance, they don’t seem to require a quite basic application of the Principle of Charity. So let me spell it out. Yes, I am aware that Saint Thomas Aquinas was a medieval theologian and that embryonic stem cell research did not exist at the time. Maybe you want to argue that there is some necessary connection between ESC research and the period of Church history where the development of Church moral doctrine treats life as beginning with conception. If so, great, argue that. Otherwise, “ESC research has always been problematic” is just a boring claim about the screamingly obvious. Because there are other potential moral or ethical frameworks within which you could evaluate ESC. Or perhaps you would say that those frameworks are not official Church doctrine, thus they’re not Catholic, even if they were taught by saints and Doctors of the Church. If so, you’re also probably the kind of person who says that someone who disagrees with the Church about the morality of contraception isn’t really Catholic, no matter what they say or do on Sundays. But then I congratulate you on erasing the vast majority of Catholics worldwide.
    - smeej 3y ago
      Why on earth would you cite the ethical standards of a 13th century author whose views were based on 13th century scientific understanding when commenting on a living institution's assessment of a 20th century technology? Thomas' views on embryology had long since been superseded in Catholic moral theology once the field of embryology advanced. Thomas represented the best of Catholic theology for his time, but it would be monumentally ignorant to act like the Catholic Church is somehow still beholden to the the moral conclusions he drew from incomplete scientific understanding. > Maybe you want to argue that there is some necessary connection between ESC research and the period of Church history where the development of Church moral doctrine treats life as beginning with conception. Of course I do. The necessary connection is that that's when ESC was created. It couldn't have been created without the very developments in embryology that rendered Thomas' conclusions moot. Talk about something so obvious it shouldn't need to be said.
      - dmvdoug 3y ago
        > it would be monumentally ignorant to act like the Catholic Church is somehow still beholden I guess it’s a good thing I didn’t do that, then.
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but ESCs have been more or less 100% hype and "future promise" with no actual current uses coming to fruition. In contrast, adult stem cells have been used for a lot of treatments and a lot of uses. For me, this casts doubt on the whole push to eliminate restrictions on ESCs.