4 ms·

This is a leadership failure. Without proper leadership, it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch.

falcolas 3y ago
Purely my own opinion, but it shouldn't take a leader going "Hey, SA is bad, so don't do it, OK?" for someone to have the morals to 1) not SA someone and 2) report SA if they learn about it. Then again, I'm often accused of having too strong of a sense of justice.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  These are systems problems. You need not only effective leadership, but also a culture where reports are investigated by a disinterested third party, strong guardrails that good faith reporters aren't retaliated against, and harsh penalties when evidence finds someone guilty. No slaps on the wrist, no dismissals of reports, no leadership chains where someone can squash an investigation either as a favor or out of reputational risk. Trust and Safety reporting should be mandatory as a condition of ongoing funding of polar ops. Accused? Confined to quarters until investigation completes. Accusations found to be true? Brig until the next transport flight is in and than permanently removed from service at the station, and banned from employment with any org that could put you in a role where you might end up at the continent again.
  - drewcoo 3y ago
    > a disinterested third party That's hard to find in a colony of a few hundred people, all gathered together for warmth. Everyone knows everyone else. > harsh penalties when evidence finds someone guilty And that's another rough one in a small community where everyone's involvement is ideally needed. (I'm assuming the penalties would harm the workforce.) If these things are necessary in a system, it would also suggest that small towns are inherently rape-y-er than large urban areas. Is that the case?
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      Can’t say small towns are more rapey per se, but they’re definitely more corrupt because of the tribalism and lack of controls that exist in larger population systems. The corrupt police raid of the Marion County Recorder comes to mind as a recent reminder of this effect. https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/public_integrity/79/ https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/public_integrity/79/
- the_snooze 3y ago
  It's not so much a leader just saying "SA is bad," but more a leader taking decisive action to shut it down as soon as it pops up. That means a harsh warning on the first offense, and dismissal on the second, regardless of the offender's rank or skill. Anything less means there's room for abusive behavior to take root.
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  It's not about needing someone to say it's bad, but about someone having decisive power and applying it.
- solumunus 3y ago
  “Should” and “shouldn’t” is almost meaningless, we have to operate on what actually is and isn’t.
ddingus 3y ago
People have to be told not to do that? Boggles the mind. I really don't accept leadership as the problem. Better would help, but at some point people need to own their behavior.
- InvertedRhodium 3y ago
  Yes - hence why we have codified laws that specifically prohibit it in most countries around the world.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

Purely my own opinion, but it shouldn't take a leader going "Hey, SA is bad, so don't do it, OK?" for someone to have the morals to 1) not SA someone and 2) report SA if they learn about it. Then again, I'm often accused of having too strong of a sense of justice.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
These are systems problems. You need not only effective leadership, but also a culture where reports are investigated by a disinterested third party, strong guardrails that good faith reporters aren't retaliated against, and harsh penalties when evidence finds someone guilty. No slaps on the wrist, no dismissals of reports, no leadership chains where someone can squash an investigation either as a favor or out of reputational risk. Trust and Safety reporting should be mandatory as a condition of ongoing funding of polar ops. Accused? Confined to quarters until investigation completes. Accusations found to be true? Brig until the next transport flight is in and than permanently removed from service at the station, and banned from employment with any org that could put you in a role where you might end up at the continent again.
- drewcoo 3y ago
  > a disinterested third party That's hard to find in a colony of a few hundred people, all gathered together for warmth. Everyone knows everyone else. > harsh penalties when evidence finds someone guilty And that's another rough one in a small community where everyone's involvement is ideally needed. (I'm assuming the penalties would harm the workforce.) If these things are necessary in a system, it would also suggest that small towns are inherently rape-y-er than large urban areas. Is that the case?
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Can’t say small towns are more rapey per se, but they’re definitely more corrupt because of the tribalism and lack of controls that exist in larger population systems. The corrupt police raid of the Marion County Recorder comes to mind as a recent reminder of this effect. https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/public_integrity/79/ https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/public_integrity/79/
the_snooze 3y ago
It's not so much a leader just saying "SA is bad," but more a leader taking decisive action to shut it down as soon as it pops up. That means a harsh warning on the first offense, and dismissal on the second, regardless of the offender's rank or skill. Anything less means there's room for abusive behavior to take root.
xboxnolifes 3y ago
It's not about needing someone to say it's bad, but about someone having decisive power and applying it.
solumunus 3y ago
“Should” and “shouldn’t” is almost meaningless, we have to operate on what actually is and isn’t.

ddingus 3y ago

People have to be told not to do that? Boggles the mind. I really don't accept leadership as the problem. Better would help, but at some point people need to own their behavior.

InvertedRhodium 3y ago
Yes - hence why we have codified laws that specifically prohibit it in most countries around the world.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]