4 ms·

The fuck is wrong with people? Over the 9 month long winter, there's only about 200 men and 100 women, and over half of the latter express that SA is a problem

The fuck is wrong with people? Over the 9 month long winter, there's only about 200 men and 100 women, and over half of the latter express that SA is a problem. That implies that a lot of men are also going to be aware of the SA problem. I'm getting strong vibes to how cops will cover for each other, even if they themselves are innocent, and the union (contractor) covers for them all.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
catiopatio 3y ago
This is a leadership failure. Without proper leadership, it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch.
- falcolas 3y ago
  Purely my own opinion, but it shouldn't take a leader going "Hey, SA is bad, so don't do it, OK?" for someone to have the morals to 1) not SA someone and 2) report SA if they learn about it. Then again, I'm often accused of having too strong of a sense of justice.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    These are systems problems. You need not only effective leadership, but also a culture where reports are investigated by a disinterested third party, strong guardrails that good faith reporters aren't retaliated against, and harsh penalties when evidence finds someone guilty. No slaps on the wrist, no dismissals of reports, no leadership chains where someone can squash an investigation either as a favor or out of reputational risk. Trust and Safety reporting should be mandatory as a condition of ongoing funding of polar ops. Accused? Confined to quarters until investigation completes. Accusations found to be true? Brig until the next transport flight is in and than permanently removed from service at the station, and banned from employment with any org that could put you in a role where you might end up at the continent again.
    - drewcoo 3y ago
      > a disinterested third party That's hard to find in a colony of a few hundred people, all gathered together for warmth. Everyone knows everyone else. > harsh penalties when evidence finds someone guilty And that's another rough one in a small community where everyone's involvement is ideally needed. (I'm assuming the penalties would harm the workforce.) If these things are necessary in a system, it would also suggest that small towns are inherently rape-y-er than large urban areas. Is that the case?
      - toomuchtodo 3y ago
        Can’t say small towns are more rapey per se, but they’re definitely more corrupt because of the tribalism and lack of controls that exist in larger population systems. The corrupt police raid of the Marion County Recorder comes to mind as a recent reminder of this effect. https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/public_integrity/79/ https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/public_integrity/79/
  - the_snooze 3y ago
    It's not so much a leader just saying "SA is bad," but more a leader taking decisive action to shut it down as soon as it pops up. That means a harsh warning on the first offense, and dismissal on the second, regardless of the offender's rank or skill. Anything less means there's room for abusive behavior to take root.
  - xboxnolifes 3y ago
    It's not about needing someone to say it's bad, but about someone having decisive power and applying it.
  - solumunus 3y ago
    “Should” and “shouldn’t” is almost meaningless, we have to operate on what actually is and isn’t.
- ddingus 3y ago
  People have to be told not to do that? Boggles the mind. I really don't accept leadership as the problem. Better would help, but at some point people need to own their behavior.
  - InvertedRhodium 3y ago
    Yes - hence why we have codified laws that specifically prohibit it in most countries around the world.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
>>> The fuck is wrong with people? Its not people, its the predominant zeitgeist of the time. Lack of duty starts at the top. It has spilled down for quite a long time. Since right before 9/11, at least. Now, its prevalent across all fields and at all levels. - Most teachers shying away from stopping bullying in the classroom. -Most big-city cops looking away from crime. - District Attorneys not prosecuting criminals. - Hospital Heads (HR?) giving ER + ICU doctors unlimited time off to "ponder" someone's murder. - Leaders punishing their reports who are fighting crime, bullying, or laziness. - Asset managers making ESG their duty, vs customer best interests. - 2008 Banks failing duty to disclose CDOs/MBS garbage - 2020-23 School districts failing the duty to educate kids - 3-letter agency leaders (FBI, CDC, EPA, etc etc) failing to inform public. - Presidents sending soldiers to die in neverending conflicts that do nothing for our defense. Keep going up the chain, you keep seeing failure of duty. It starts from the top, and percolates down. When the sheep vote in the wolves run the pasture, don't be surprised when the dogs walk away from protecting the sheep.
david38 3y ago
Not necessarily. Girls know who sexual harassers are because they experience it. I doubt those guys go around telling their friends what they did. Why would they? For any kind of crime where there is a potentially strong social backlash, I bet the perps take great pains to cover their tracks from people in their physical vicinity. They might share, but more likely on online forums.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

catiopatio 3y ago

This is a leadership failure. Without proper leadership, it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch.

falcolas 3y ago
Purely my own opinion, but it shouldn't take a leader going "Hey, SA is bad, so don't do it, OK?" for someone to have the morals to 1) not SA someone and 2) report SA if they learn about it. Then again, I'm often accused of having too strong of a sense of justice.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  These are systems problems. You need not only effective leadership, but also a culture where reports are investigated by a disinterested third party, strong guardrails that good faith reporters aren't retaliated against, and harsh penalties when evidence finds someone guilty. No slaps on the wrist, no dismissals of reports, no leadership chains where someone can squash an investigation either as a favor or out of reputational risk. Trust and Safety reporting should be mandatory as a condition of ongoing funding of polar ops. Accused? Confined to quarters until investigation completes. Accusations found to be true? Brig until the next transport flight is in and than permanently removed from service at the station, and banned from employment with any org that could put you in a role where you might end up at the continent again.
  - drewcoo 3y ago
    > a disinterested third party That's hard to find in a colony of a few hundred people, all gathered together for warmth. Everyone knows everyone else. > harsh penalties when evidence finds someone guilty And that's another rough one in a small community where everyone's involvement is ideally needed. (I'm assuming the penalties would harm the workforce.) If these things are necessary in a system, it would also suggest that small towns are inherently rape-y-er than large urban areas. Is that the case?
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      Can’t say small towns are more rapey per se, but they’re definitely more corrupt because of the tribalism and lack of controls that exist in larger population systems. The corrupt police raid of the Marion County Recorder comes to mind as a recent reminder of this effect. https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/public_integrity/79/ https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/public_integrity/79/
- the_snooze 3y ago
  It's not so much a leader just saying "SA is bad," but more a leader taking decisive action to shut it down as soon as it pops up. That means a harsh warning on the first offense, and dismissal on the second, regardless of the offender's rank or skill. Anything less means there's room for abusive behavior to take root.
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  It's not about needing someone to say it's bad, but about someone having decisive power and applying it.
- solumunus 3y ago
  “Should” and “shouldn’t” is almost meaningless, we have to operate on what actually is and isn’t.
ddingus 3y ago
People have to be told not to do that? Boggles the mind. I really don't accept leadership as the problem. Better would help, but at some point people need to own their behavior.
- InvertedRhodium 3y ago
  Yes - hence why we have codified laws that specifically prohibit it in most countries around the world.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago

>>> The fuck is wrong with people? Its not people, its the predominant zeitgeist of the time. Lack of duty starts at the top. It has spilled down for quite a long time. Since right before 9/11, at least. Now, its prevalent across all fields and at all levels. - Most teachers shying away from stopping bullying in the classroom. -Most big-city cops looking away from crime. - District Attorneys not prosecuting criminals. - Hospital Heads (HR?) giving ER + ICU doctors unlimited time off to "ponder" someone's murder. - Leaders punishing their reports who are fighting crime, bullying, or laziness. - Asset managers making ESG their duty, vs customer best interests. - 2008 Banks failing duty to disclose CDOs/MBS garbage - 2020-23 School districts failing the duty to educate kids - 3-letter agency leaders (FBI, CDC, EPA, etc etc) failing to inform public. - Presidents sending soldiers to die in neverending conflicts that do nothing for our defense. Keep going up the chain, you keep seeing failure of duty. It starts from the top, and percolates down. When the sheep vote in the wolves run the pasture, don't be surprised when the dogs walk away from protecting the sheep.

david38 3y ago

Not necessarily. Girls know who sexual harassers are because they experience it. I doubt those guys go around telling their friends what they did. Why would they? For any kind of crime where there is a potentially strong social backlash, I bet the perps take great pains to cover their tracks from people in their physical vicinity. They might share, but more likely on online forums.