6 ms·

Can Vines Speed Urban Cooling? – UC Davis

24 points by raybb 3y ago

helph67 3y ago
A crimson glory vine has been providing summer cooling, autumn (fall) colour (color) and winter warmth for many years, placed on the northern wall of my home. https://thewest.com.au/lifestyle/garden/plant-profile-crimson-glory-vine-ng-b88399757z https://thewest.com.au/lifestyle/garden/plant-profile-crimso...
drak0n1c 3y ago
The scaffolding described in the article will have to ensure that the vines do not eventually directly attach to the wall, because if they do and are not cleaned off regularly there can be severe damage to the brick and mortar, which compromises the energy rating and structural safety of the building.
- sethhochberg 3y ago
  My building’s condo bylaws go as far as to explicitly ban several species of ivy from balcony and rooftop gardens. It’s a beautiful way to ensure you’ll eventually need a new facade after it gets into the masonry. But I welcome any mainstream solutions that make the beauty and other nice side effects of heavy climbing plant cover available with a trusted barrier between it and the building underneath.
- ip26 3y ago
  That’s a species thing. Different species use either twining stems, tendrils, aerial roots or holdfasts. Roots are probably the ones you are concerned about.
- ars 3y ago
  This is an urban legend that is not true. Vines with sticky pad cause no damage at all if you just leave them there. The ones with wrapping tendrils can try to penetrate into the brick, so don't plant those, but the sticky type causes zero damage. In fact cleaning them off would be worse because then the sticky pad might remove some loose material! If you do need to remove the plant kill it, and let it sit for a few months and then it will come off without removing even lose material.
shonenknifefan1 3y ago
How do vines attached to a building affect fire risk for that building?
- ars 3y ago
  They don't. Living wood is very very hard to ignite. It would need to dry for several months before it can sustain a fire without help. It's not like grass that can dry completely (and the leaves are dead, but not the roots) and then can catch fire. With a vine if it's dead (and getting dryer) it's not coming back - so pull it off the house.
- passwordoops 3y ago
  If there's a negative, it's with the vines potentially damaging already damaged/poorly executed masonry (0). Otherwise I can't see risk of fire being an issue unless your drought is so bad the vines wither, die and completely dry out near a spark source (0) https://web.extension.illinois.edu/vines/buildings.cfm https://web.extension.illinois.edu/vines/buildings.cfm
ShakataGaNai 3y ago
The basic concept seems fairly obvious to me. At least on a small scale. My house is a masonry exterior with a mostly southern exposure. It soaks up the sun and keeps the house very very warm late into the evening... which is not a helpful feature when it's 90F every day of the summer. My plan was to do basically what they described here. Setup some trellis 4 ft or so some the house, and plant some fast-growing vines. Anything to shade the house will obviously be beneficial from a cooling perspective. The vines are mostly to reduce the cost of shading and increase the aesthetics. Now what plants are the best balance of low water usage, high growth, low maintenance? That's a good question and I look forward to seeing what UCDavis comes up with.
- abakker 3y ago
  if you live in a climate that freezes, I'd recommend Hops. They grow like crazy and are quite beautiful in the fall.
  - giantg2 3y ago
    Smells delicious
  - darkclouds 3y ago
    And people would harvest hops and then hang them in their house, typically kitchen where they would dry out and be used to make beverages, typically beer. If you mess around with beta alanine and manganese (chloride), be prepared for an increase in olfactory sensing (smelling), and you'll soon discover the rotting smell of vegetation when things get damp, foggy or it rains amongst many other things. I pity our canine friends. I think humans wouldnt live in such damp environments if they could smell how bad it is, but as they cant normally/couldnt in the past, would explain the migration to damp conditions in human history, instead of mastering irrigation in arid environments. So whilst the growing of vines and other vegetation on buildings could work at absorbing the ultraviolet and infrared radiation spectrum to reduce urban cooling, is it such a thought out idea, or are we increasing a new bacterial attack vector into our immediate environment?
- klooney 3y ago
ars 3y ago
I have some Boston ivy completely covering 2 walls of my house. It's wonderful! In the summer it completely blocks the sun from the walls, keeping my house much cooler. And in the winter it falls off letting the sun in to help with heating. The side of the house that isn't covered (yet) is noticeably warmer. The only maintenance is opening windows and pushing away any vines that want to cover the windows, and once a year making sure no vines got in the gutters. (A tip: Don't cut the vines by the window, but rather pull them off and let them hang loose - this signals to the plant that it's at an "edge" and it won't try to grow more in that direction.)
agnosticmantis 3y ago
How does this play with wildfires? Thinking of the recent article [0] on the “miracle house” in Hawaii that survived the fires even though entire blocks around it burned to ashes. The key was to not have combustible stuff on or close to the walls: “But Michael Wara, the director of the Climate and Energy Policy Program at the Stanford Wood Institute for the Environment, said it was likely the Millikins’ decision to dig out the existing landscaping directly surrounding the house and replace it with river stones that made the biggest difference. “What folks in the wildfire business call the zone zero or the ember ignition zone, is kind of a key factor in whether homes do or do not burn down,” Wara said. Having nothing combustible in the 5 feet directly around a house is enormously important.” [0: https://www.civilbeat.org/2023/08/what-saved-the-miracle-house-in-lahaina https://www.civilbeat.org/2023/08/what-saved-the-miracle-hou... ]
- ars 3y ago
  See my reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37287465 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37287465 basically if the vine is alive it's not going to burn (unlike grass). But if the drought is so bad that it dies you need to remove it.

24 points by raybb 3y ago

A crimson glory vine has been providing summer cooling, autumn (fall) colour (color) and winter warmth for many years, placed on the northern wall of my home. https://thewest.com.au/lifestyle/garden/plant-profile-crimson-glory-vine-ng-b88399757z https://thewest.com.au/lifestyle/garden/plant-profile-crimso...

drak0n1c 3y ago

The scaffolding described in the article will have to ensure that the vines do not eventually directly attach to the wall, because if they do and are not cleaned off regularly there can be severe damage to the brick and mortar, which compromises the energy rating and structural safety of the building.

sethhochberg 3y ago
My building’s condo bylaws go as far as to explicitly ban several species of ivy from balcony and rooftop gardens. It’s a beautiful way to ensure you’ll eventually need a new facade after it gets into the masonry. But I welcome any mainstream solutions that make the beauty and other nice side effects of heavy climbing plant cover available with a trusted barrier between it and the building underneath.
ip26 3y ago
That’s a species thing. Different species use either twining stems, tendrils, aerial roots or holdfasts. Roots are probably the ones you are concerned about.
ars 3y ago
This is an urban legend that is not true. Vines with sticky pad cause no damage at all if you just leave them there. The ones with wrapping tendrils can try to penetrate into the brick, so don't plant those, but the sticky type causes zero damage. In fact cleaning them off would be worse because then the sticky pad might remove some loose material! If you do need to remove the plant kill it, and let it sit for a few months and then it will come off without removing even lose material.

shonenknifefan1 3y ago

How do vines attached to a building affect fire risk for that building?

ars 3y ago
They don't. Living wood is very very hard to ignite. It would need to dry for several months before it can sustain a fire without help. It's not like grass that can dry completely (and the leaves are dead, but not the roots) and then can catch fire. With a vine if it's dead (and getting dryer) it's not coming back - so pull it off the house.
passwordoops 3y ago
If there's a negative, it's with the vines potentially damaging already damaged/poorly executed masonry (0). Otherwise I can't see risk of fire being an issue unless your drought is so bad the vines wither, die and completely dry out near a spark source (0) https://web.extension.illinois.edu/vines/buildings.cfm https://web.extension.illinois.edu/vines/buildings.cfm

ShakataGaNai 3y ago

The basic concept seems fairly obvious to me. At least on a small scale. My house is a masonry exterior with a mostly southern exposure. It soaks up the sun and keeps the house very very warm late into the evening... which is not a helpful feature when it's 90F every day of the summer. My plan was to do basically what they described here. Setup some trellis 4 ft or so some the house, and plant some fast-growing vines. Anything to shade the house will obviously be beneficial from a cooling perspective. The vines are mostly to reduce the cost of shading and increase the aesthetics. Now what plants are the best balance of low water usage, high growth, low maintenance? That's a good question and I look forward to seeing what UCDavis comes up with.

abakker 3y ago
if you live in a climate that freezes, I'd recommend Hops. They grow like crazy and are quite beautiful in the fall.
- giantg2 3y ago
  Smells delicious
- darkclouds 3y ago
  And people would harvest hops and then hang them in their house, typically kitchen where they would dry out and be used to make beverages, typically beer. If you mess around with beta alanine and manganese (chloride), be prepared for an increase in olfactory sensing (smelling), and you'll soon discover the rotting smell of vegetation when things get damp, foggy or it rains amongst many other things. I pity our canine friends. I think humans wouldnt live in such damp environments if they could smell how bad it is, but as they cant normally/couldnt in the past, would explain the migration to damp conditions in human history, instead of mastering irrigation in arid environments. So whilst the growing of vines and other vegetation on buildings could work at absorbing the ultraviolet and infrared radiation spectrum to reduce urban cooling, is it such a thought out idea, or are we increasing a new bacterial attack vector into our immediate environment?
klooney 3y ago

ars 3y ago

I have some Boston ivy completely covering 2 walls of my house. It's wonderful! In the summer it completely blocks the sun from the walls, keeping my house much cooler. And in the winter it falls off letting the sun in to help with heating. The side of the house that isn't covered (yet) is noticeably warmer. The only maintenance is opening windows and pushing away any vines that want to cover the windows, and once a year making sure no vines got in the gutters. (A tip: Don't cut the vines by the window, but rather pull them off and let them hang loose - this signals to the plant that it's at an "edge" and it won't try to grow more in that direction.)

agnosticmantis 3y ago

How does this play with wildfires? Thinking of the recent article [0] on the “miracle house” in Hawaii that survived the fires even though entire blocks around it burned to ashes. The key was to not have combustible stuff on or close to the walls: “But Michael Wara, the director of the Climate and Energy Policy Program at the Stanford Wood Institute for the Environment, said it was likely the Millikins’ decision to dig out the existing landscaping directly surrounding the house and replace it with river stones that made the biggest difference. “What folks in the wildfire business call the zone zero or the ember ignition zone, is kind of a key factor in whether homes do or do not burn down,” Wara said. Having nothing combustible in the 5 feet directly around a house is enormously important.” [0: https://www.civilbeat.org/2023/08/what-saved-the-miracle-house-in-lahaina https://www.civilbeat.org/2023/08/what-saved-the-miracle-hou... ]

ars 3y ago
See my reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37287465 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37287465 basically if the vine is alive it's not going to burn (unlike grass). But if the drought is so bad that it dies you need to remove it.