13 ms·

The thing about classical music is that you have to understand the works in order to really enjoy them – of course there are exceptions when the melody just gra

by ob 3y ago

The thing about classical music is that you have to understand the works in order to really enjoy them – of course there are exceptions when the melody just grabs you but that's not the norm. There was an album collection called "Musically Speaking" that explained music works and detailed what to listen for. For example, they isolated the flutes in Beethoven's Pastoral and explained they represented birds, etc. My enjoyment of classical works spiked after understanding more. I think it's much easier to connect with Rock/Pop because the works are much, much simpler so it's mostly whether the lyrics speak to you and you like the melody.

jschveibinz 3y ago
And there was this wonderful man and his great commentary program: Karl Haas, “Adventures in Good Music” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventures_in_Good_Music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventures_in_Good_Music https://archive.org/details/1.14.1992CatalogueCriteria https://archive.org/details/1.14.1992CatalogueCriteria
beebeepka 3y ago
"This is great and here's why you should like it" strikes mme as a terrible argument, especially for things that boil down to taste.
- khazhoux 3y ago
  "This thing that most people today don't like, they really might love it if they gave these a try."
  - beebeepka 3y ago
    > you have to understand the works in order to really enjoy them That's what they said
    - khazhoux 3y ago
      sorry, I thought you were commenting on the original article
beardyw 3y ago
> The thing about classical music is that you have to understand the works in order to really enjoy them – of course there are exceptions when the melody just grabs you but that's not the norm. Sorry, but if you need I reason to enjoy something, you don't. There is so much music out there - just enjoy what you enjoy. There is never a reason why you need to enjoy something. Expose yourself to different genres but if it doesn't hook you move on. For me the film 2001 I discovered György Ligeti, I wouldn't recommend that to anyone!
khazhoux 3y ago
> The thing about classical music is that you have to understand the works in order to really enjoy them Very strong disagree that this is required. Proof: the millions of people who have enjoyed it for 200 years without knowing a cadence from a cor anglais. Can it help? Sure, probably. I'm a big fan of Rop Kapilow's "What Makes It Great?" series where he does lively walkthroughs of pieces of (usually) classical music [1]. > I think it's much easier to connect with Rock/Pop because the works are much, much simple I don't think it's about simplicity at all. In the end, all music is a language (in a literal sense) and if you grew up with rock music then you understand and relate to that language, and others will sound foreign. Same for people in China, or in India with ragas and microtones, or people in Mexico who grew up listening to Norteño music with those (to me, nonsensical) drum breaks. And like any language, sometimes it doesn't come naturally but with enough exposure, one can start to "understand" (in the intuitive sense) what is being said. And there are certainly pieces than are better than others for making the transition into a new genre. [1] Rob Kapilow is at Stanford's Bing Concert Hall about twice a year. Highly recommended!
- bwv848 3y ago
  What does it mean to understand a piece of work? Do I have to read the sheet music? Do I need to know musical theory? Should I be familiar with the composer's background? The definition is somewhat vague. However, I would argue that one have to remember the works, know what tune plays next to really appreciate them. At least that's the case for me with Mahler.
  - khazhoux 3y ago
    > What does it mean to understand a piece of work? Do I have to read the sheet music? Do I need to know musical theory? Should I be familiar with the composer's background? The definition is somewhat vague. Oh no, I didn't mean any of those at all. Quite the opposite. I mean "understand it" as the opposite of "it sounds like nonsense." It's at the intuitive level, not about the ability to reason the structure details or whatever. Everyone grows up listening to some particular types of music in their household, culture, etc. You naturally develop an intuitive understanding, in the same way a native speaker has adopted the rhythms and tones and phonemes of their local language. A typical modern American listening to Charlie Parker rip through a bebop solo, is not too different than listening to someone speaking Mandarin. The sounds don't map onto anything recognizable. But you listen to it enough, and the brain starts to understand the structure. It's not just a blurred stream of saxophone, but a series of phrases, with inflections, patterns, meaning. Listen to it long enough, and you hear every individual note as it flies by.
jacquesm 3y ago
I really can't get behind that understanding bit. Some of this stuff is just so beautiful it just gets me. For instance: Marcello's adagio: https://youtu.be/vE2O_yfgtBU?si=f8BcjAg7ul-VuIHA&t=212 https://youtu.be/vE2O_yfgtBU?si=f8BcjAg7ul-VuIHA&t=212 for oboe. But I can easily get similar feelings from much more popular music.

by ob 3y ago

jschveibinz 3y ago

And there was this wonderful man and his great commentary program: Karl Haas, “Adventures in Good Music” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventures_in_Good_Music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventures_in_Good_Music https://archive.org/details/1.14.1992CatalogueCriteria https://archive.org/details/1.14.1992CatalogueCriteria

beebeepka 3y ago

"This is great and here's why you should like it" strikes mme as a terrible argument, especially for things that boil down to taste.

khazhoux 3y ago
"This thing that most people today don't like, they really might love it if they gave these a try."
- beebeepka 3y ago
  > you have to understand the works in order to really enjoy them That's what they said
  - khazhoux 3y ago
    sorry, I thought you were commenting on the original article

beardyw 3y ago

> The thing about classical music is that you have to understand the works in order to really enjoy them – of course there are exceptions when the melody just grabs you but that's not the norm. Sorry, but if you need I reason to enjoy something, you don't. There is so much music out there - just enjoy what you enjoy. There is never a reason why you need to enjoy something. Expose yourself to different genres but if it doesn't hook you move on. For me the film 2001 I discovered György Ligeti, I wouldn't recommend that to anyone!

khazhoux 3y ago

> The thing about classical music is that you have to understand the works in order to really enjoy them Very strong disagree that this is required. Proof: the millions of people who have enjoyed it for 200 years without knowing a cadence from a cor anglais. Can it help? Sure, probably. I'm a big fan of Rop Kapilow's "What Makes It Great?" series where he does lively walkthroughs of pieces of (usually) classical music [1]. > I think it's much easier to connect with Rock/Pop because the works are much, much simple I don't think it's about simplicity at all. In the end, all music is a language (in a literal sense) and if you grew up with rock music then you understand and relate to that language, and others will sound foreign. Same for people in China, or in India with ragas and microtones, or people in Mexico who grew up listening to Norteño music with those (to me, nonsensical) drum breaks. And like any language, sometimes it doesn't come naturally but with enough exposure, one can start to "understand" (in the intuitive sense) what is being said. And there are certainly pieces than are better than others for making the transition into a new genre. [1] Rob Kapilow is at Stanford's Bing Concert Hall about twice a year. Highly recommended!

bwv848 3y ago
What does it mean to understand a piece of work? Do I have to read the sheet music? Do I need to know musical theory? Should I be familiar with the composer's background? The definition is somewhat vague. However, I would argue that one have to remember the works, know what tune plays next to really appreciate them. At least that's the case for me with Mahler.
- khazhoux 3y ago
  > What does it mean to understand a piece of work? Do I have to read the sheet music? Do I need to know musical theory? Should I be familiar with the composer's background? The definition is somewhat vague. Oh no, I didn't mean any of those at all. Quite the opposite. I mean "understand it" as the opposite of "it sounds like nonsense." It's at the intuitive level, not about the ability to reason the structure details or whatever. Everyone grows up listening to some particular types of music in their household, culture, etc. You naturally develop an intuitive understanding, in the same way a native speaker has adopted the rhythms and tones and phonemes of their local language. A typical modern American listening to Charlie Parker rip through a bebop solo, is not too different than listening to someone speaking Mandarin. The sounds don't map onto anything recognizable. But you listen to it enough, and the brain starts to understand the structure. It's not just a blurred stream of saxophone, but a series of phrases, with inflections, patterns, meaning. Listen to it long enough, and you hear every individual note as it flies by.

jacquesm 3y ago

I really can't get behind that understanding bit. Some of this stuff is just so beautiful it just gets me. For instance: Marcello's adagio: https://youtu.be/vE2O_yfgtBU?si=f8BcjAg7ul-VuIHA&t=212 https://youtu.be/vE2O_yfgtBU?si=f8BcjAg7ul-VuIHA&t=212 for oboe. But I can easily get similar feelings from much more popular music.