5 ms·

Tell HN: Edge has added rounded corners to all web pages

91 points by breadwinner 3y ago

Microsoft Edge version 116.0.1938.62 has added rounded corners to all web pages, and there is no way to opt out. Edge has been interfering with the web application experience from the start, with unwanted hover icons and menus that cannot be disabled by the application. (For example, if you hover over an image, you get Visual Search and Settings icons.) Super annoying. But this latest change takes the cake. It is ugly. If the page has a scrollbar at document level, the web page will get rounded corner only at the top left, not the top right, thus losing symmetry. For example, go to CNN or Github. If the web page has dark-mode you get a distracting white border around the page, for example on chat.openai.com. Edge is breaking this cardinal rule: Browser chrome belongs to the browser, but the content area belongs to the application alone. Edge should stay out of the content area, or at least should allow applications to turn off unwanted buttons and menus, thus retaining full control of the application experience.

db48x 3y ago
That’s not the rule I want browsers to follow. I want the browser to act as my agent, following my preferences in all things. I set a minimum font size, I control which fonts pages may use, I control when they may run scripts, when they may have videos or sound, what form controls (buttons, text inputs, etc) look like, when they may load content from third–party domains, etc, etc. Web application developers should not complain when a web browser changes the look or feel of their application, even if the browser makes super weird choices like putting rounded corners on the viewport. If the user doesn’t like it they’ll tell the browser vender. The web designer doesn’t get a vote.
- breadwinner 3y ago
  That sounds idealistic, but not practical. Users want application developers to design applications for them, not use the browser settings to design & customize the application for themselves, because most users aren't designers, and even if they are, they don't want to spend the time.
  - lolinder 3y ago
    It's not idealistic to expect an application to adapt to a user's device, it's called accessibility and it's the law. Some users will change the font size because they can't see well, others will interact exclusively with a screen reader, others will need to change your colors because they're color blind. Still others will try to automate their tasks with scripts and macros. The web is the most accessible platform that exists if it's used right, where "used right" means embracing the fact that the user's browser (with all of its customizations) has ultimate control over the user's experience with your application. If you want ultimate control you want a native app.
    - breadwinner 3y ago
      > It's not idealistic to expect an application to adapt to a user's device, it's called accessibility and it's the law. What does that have to do with rounded corners?
      - lolinder 3y ago
        I'm referring to OP's list of things they change: > I want the browser to act as my agent, following my preferences in all things. I set a minimum font size, I control which fonts pages may use, I control when they may run scripts, when they may have videos or sound, what form controls (buttons, text inputs, etc) look like, when they may load content from third–party domains, etc, etc. Some of these are privacy considerations, but most of them are also accessibility-related for some people. Ensuring fonts are in readable ranges for a given person, preventing autoplay, changing form controls to stand out more—all of these are things that people do to accommodate for disabilities. This one thing that bugs you (rounded corners) is an aesthetic change, but the fact remains that you should expect browsers to modify your designs to meet user needs. If this serves as a wakeup call to designers that they can't count on pixel-perfect designs, good.
        breadwinner 3y ago
        You are conflating design/aesthetic choices with accessibility. The browser designer is enforcing their aesthetic choices (which happens to be ugly and inconsistent) on their users. That's OK if it only impacts the browser chrome. If it impacts the content area, then the browser designer should defer to the application designer. > you should expect browsers to modify your designs to meet user needs. As a user, I don't want browser messing with the application design. There is no way to turn off these "enhancements".
- zzo38computer 3y ago
  I agree, although the browser should include appropriate settings/functions for the user to configure all of the things that you mention (and others as well, such as maximum font size, request headers, file format and protocol handlers, etc), and should have suitable defaults. The user ought to have the ability to turn off the rounded corners (fortunately it seems there is such an option, so that would be good), and it also probably ought to be off by default.
- gary_0 3y ago
  > If the user doesn’t like it they’ll tell the browser vender. Let's be realistic: Microsoft, Google, and Mozilla aren't listening. They'll cram all sorts of ugly annoying stuff in your face and laugh at your pitiful forum threads begging for a setting to turn it all off.
- joker_minmax 3y ago
  By this logic we may as well go back into plaintext Netscape sites and let the browser determine everything about how we see the content. What is the limit to what the browser is allowed to do, and where do your preferences end and the browser's preferences that you can't change begin?
nguyenkien 3y ago
I not support what MS do, but you can actually disable all of this. Rounded corner: about:config search for rounded Image menu: edge://settings/appearance/hoverMenu
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
lolinder 3y ago
A screenshot and explanation of how to turn this off can be found here [0]. > Edge is breaking this cardinal rule: Browser chrome belongs to the browser, but the content area belongs to the application alone. It's funny, for me this is not at all what the web is about. I see CSS styles as at best a suggestion for how the website would like to be rendered, but the browser is fundamentally a user agent that can render stuff however the user likes. If you don't like how Edge renders things, you can always switch to a different browser or change the settings. Web applications should be designed with this in mind: control of the client experience is in the hands of the user or the user's agent. When a web application is designed this way, it is natively the most accessible kind of app that can exist, usable with a screen reader, terminal GUI, mobile, desktop, or even a scriptable web driver. In contrast, web apps that obsess over having minute control over every detail of the presentation tend to be clunky, nonresponsive and inaccessible. In my mind, the more heterogeneous web browsers are, the more web applications are forced to handle for different configurations, and the better the ecosystem will be overall. For once I think Microsoft is doing something web-related that I actually approve of. [0] https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-edge-will-let-you-disable-rounded-corners-on-web-pages/ https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-edge-will-let-you-disa...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- zzo38computer 3y ago
  > Web applications should be designed with this in mind: control of the client experience is in the hands of the user or the user's agent. ... web apps that obsess over having minute control over every detail of the presentation tend to be clunky, nonresponsive and inaccessible. You are right; I agree. However, the web browser designs tend to make things difficult, and the specifications of W3C can also make things difficult because they are excessively complicated.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  > It's funny, for me this is not at all what the web is about. I see CSS styles as at best a suggestion for how the website would like to be rendered, but the browser is fundamentally a user agent that can render stuff however the user likes. If you don't like how Edge renders things, you can always switch to a different browser or change the settings. I agree but this is something that Google is trying to break with WEI by banning modified or "untrustworthy" browsers.
davorak 3y ago
> Edge is breaking this cardinal rule: Browser chrome belongs to the browser, but the content area belongs to the application alone. I think the end user should have 100% control or access to it. I do not think this would be an issue if this was a niche browser that the user needs to seek out. Or if browser usage was spread across tens of browsers instead of 2-3 or some other form of highly competitive market with users willing to switch at a moments notice.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
CharlesW 3y ago
> But this latest change takes the cake. It is ugly. If the page has a scrollbar at document level, the web page will get rounded corner only at the top left, not the top right, thus losing symmetry. For example, go to CNN or Github. Neither of these pages has rounded corners for me on 116.0.1938.62 on macOS. What platform are you on? (To be pedantic: The bottom left corner is rounded when not full-screen because it's a window corner, but that's normal and happens with all browsers.)
tlhunter 3y ago
Doesn't macOS round the corners of application windows, including browsers?
- masswerk 3y ago
  This generally applies to outer window borders, but not to the content area. Interestingly, Edge doesn't apply rounded corners to its own content presentation, either, as can be seen in the screenshots provided in a page (Neowin) linked by another comment, here. To me, it appears much so as if MS is making a serious attempt to differentiate between own and foreign content, which includes a rather surprising comeback of visually prominent frame/window borders, which are marked by round corners in this particular design language. (If this is a good thing or not is left to the beholder, but it's at least interesting.)
wkat4242 3y ago
It also provides this unwanted bullshit like coupon notifications and buy now pay later scams. I know it can be turned off but it should never have been included. Really, I don't know why people still use it. If you want chrome, just use the real thing. The only reason I use it is Microsoft lobbied my work to make it the "official" browser. Not sure why they're so proud of their copy of Google's stuff with a thin layer of Microsoft veneer. I don't find it a strong selling point of a software company when they have to admit someone else does a better job. Personally I just use Firefox and love it.
- Unfrozen0688 3y ago
  >The only reason I use it is Microsoft lobbied my work to make it the "official" browser The reason is that Edge works with Azure Entra SSO out of the box, syncs settings and everything with a Microsoft account, integrates with smartscreen and defender, works the best with all office 365 apps, Bing now searches Office 365 etc. ALSO the settings control is offers over GPO and Intune. No "lobbying" needed, sadly. (I use a wombo combo of browsers at work and at home...)
FridayoLeary 3y ago
So they finally found that "better experience" that comes with using the Edge browser according to Microsoft. Of course the ungrateful masses reject it.
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
This isn't new
- ChrisArchitect 3y ago
  https://www.neowin.net/news/get-ready-for-more-rounded-corners-in-windows-11-in-somewhat-unexpected-places/ https://www.neowin.net/news/get-ready-for-more-rounded-corne...
steroids33331 3y ago
i cant fucking take it anymore
- Unfrozen0688 3y ago
  https://imgur.com/PCSrpsf https://imgur.com/PCSrpsf
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
svilen_dobrev 3y ago
so is Opera (on linux).. some 3-4px artificial frame-of-theirs that does not come or be controllable by window-manager. Why? To look rounded on rounded phones? All these "pink-fluffy-unicorn" looks-feels of all recent techie stuff start to make me sick..
- LorenDB 3y ago
  I'm happy with the rounded corners in Opera (although I rarely see them since I leave the window maximized most of the time); in face, I would love to see KDE Plasma adopt the same strategy of rounding all four corners of windows. It looks nice, and Windows 11 has reinforced that it can work fine without getting in the user's way (although Windows 11 rounded them too much, and now it's hard to resize windows easily).
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > I would love to see KDE Plasma adopt the same strategy of rounding all four corners of windows. Only if it can be disabled. I would hate this quite a lot.
joker_minmax 3y ago
YouTube has now started rounding corners of the video player at full-screen for some users. My friends have shared screenshots of this but I am yet to encounter it outside of mobile where my phone screen is already rounded. I seriously thought the round corners trend was dead already. Why are they trying to force it back?

91 points by breadwinner 3y ago

db48x 3y ago

That’s not the rule I want browsers to follow. I want the browser to act as my agent, following my preferences in all things. I set a minimum font size, I control which fonts pages may use, I control when they may run scripts, when they may have videos or sound, what form controls (buttons, text inputs, etc) look like, when they may load content from third–party domains, etc, etc. Web application developers should not complain when a web browser changes the look or feel of their application, even if the browser makes super weird choices like putting rounded corners on the viewport. If the user doesn’t like it they’ll tell the browser vender. The web designer doesn’t get a vote.

breadwinner 3y ago
That sounds idealistic, but not practical. Users want application developers to design applications for them, not use the browser settings to design & customize the application for themselves, because most users aren't designers, and even if they are, they don't want to spend the time.
- lolinder 3y ago
  It's not idealistic to expect an application to adapt to a user's device, it's called accessibility and it's the law. Some users will change the font size because they can't see well, others will interact exclusively with a screen reader, others will need to change your colors because they're color blind. Still others will try to automate their tasks with scripts and macros. The web is the most accessible platform that exists if it's used right, where "used right" means embracing the fact that the user's browser (with all of its customizations) has ultimate control over the user's experience with your application. If you want ultimate control you want a native app.
  - breadwinner 3y ago
    > It's not idealistic to expect an application to adapt to a user's device, it's called accessibility and it's the law. What does that have to do with rounded corners?
    - lolinder 3y ago
      I'm referring to OP's list of things they change: > I want the browser to act as my agent, following my preferences in all things. I set a minimum font size, I control which fonts pages may use, I control when they may run scripts, when they may have videos or sound, what form controls (buttons, text inputs, etc) look like, when they may load content from third–party domains, etc, etc. Some of these are privacy considerations, but most of them are also accessibility-related for some people. Ensuring fonts are in readable ranges for a given person, preventing autoplay, changing form controls to stand out more—all of these are things that people do to accommodate for disabilities. This one thing that bugs you (rounded corners) is an aesthetic change, but the fact remains that you should expect browsers to modify your designs to meet user needs. If this serves as a wakeup call to designers that they can't count on pixel-perfect designs, good.
      - breadwinner 3y ago
        You are conflating design/aesthetic choices with accessibility. The browser designer is enforcing their aesthetic choices (which happens to be ugly and inconsistent) on their users. That's OK if it only impacts the browser chrome. If it impacts the content area, then the browser designer should defer to the application designer. > you should expect browsers to modify your designs to meet user needs. As a user, I don't want browser messing with the application design. There is no way to turn off these "enhancements".
zzo38computer 3y ago
I agree, although the browser should include appropriate settings/functions for the user to configure all of the things that you mention (and others as well, such as maximum font size, request headers, file format and protocol handlers, etc), and should have suitable defaults. The user ought to have the ability to turn off the rounded corners (fortunately it seems there is such an option, so that would be good), and it also probably ought to be off by default.
gary_0 3y ago
> If the user doesn’t like it they’ll tell the browser vender. Let's be realistic: Microsoft, Google, and Mozilla aren't listening. They'll cram all sorts of ugly annoying stuff in your face and laugh at your pitiful forum threads begging for a setting to turn it all off.
joker_minmax 3y ago
By this logic we may as well go back into plaintext Netscape sites and let the browser determine everything about how we see the content. What is the limit to what the browser is allowed to do, and where do your preferences end and the browser's preferences that you can't change begin?

nguyenkien 3y ago

I not support what MS do, but you can actually disable all of this. Rounded corner: about:config search for rounded Image menu: edge://settings/appearance/hoverMenu

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

lolinder 3y ago

A screenshot and explanation of how to turn this off can be found here [0]. > Edge is breaking this cardinal rule: Browser chrome belongs to the browser, but the content area belongs to the application alone. It's funny, for me this is not at all what the web is about. I see CSS styles as at best a suggestion for how the website would like to be rendered, but the browser is fundamentally a user agent that can render stuff however the user likes. If you don't like how Edge renders things, you can always switch to a different browser or change the settings. Web applications should be designed with this in mind: control of the client experience is in the hands of the user or the user's agent. When a web application is designed this way, it is natively the most accessible kind of app that can exist, usable with a screen reader, terminal GUI, mobile, desktop, or even a scriptable web driver. In contrast, web apps that obsess over having minute control over every detail of the presentation tend to be clunky, nonresponsive and inaccessible. In my mind, the more heterogeneous web browsers are, the more web applications are forced to handle for different configurations, and the better the ecosystem will be overall. For once I think Microsoft is doing something web-related that I actually approve of. [0] https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-edge-will-let-you-disable-rounded-corners-on-web-pages/ https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-edge-will-let-you-disa...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
zzo38computer 3y ago
> Web applications should be designed with this in mind: control of the client experience is in the hands of the user or the user's agent. ... web apps that obsess over having minute control over every detail of the presentation tend to be clunky, nonresponsive and inaccessible. You are right; I agree. However, the web browser designs tend to make things difficult, and the specifications of W3C can also make things difficult because they are excessively complicated.
wkat4242 3y ago
> It's funny, for me this is not at all what the web is about. I see CSS styles as at best a suggestion for how the website would like to be rendered, but the browser is fundamentally a user agent that can render stuff however the user likes. If you don't like how Edge renders things, you can always switch to a different browser or change the settings. I agree but this is something that Google is trying to break with WEI by banning modified or "untrustworthy" browsers.

davorak 3y ago

> Edge is breaking this cardinal rule: Browser chrome belongs to the browser, but the content area belongs to the application alone. I think the end user should have 100% control or access to it. I do not think this would be an issue if this was a niche browser that the user needs to seek out. Or if browser usage was spread across tens of browsers instead of 2-3 or some other form of highly competitive market with users willing to switch at a moments notice.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

CharlesW 3y ago

> But this latest change takes the cake. It is ugly. If the page has a scrollbar at document level, the web page will get rounded corner only at the top left, not the top right, thus losing symmetry. For example, go to CNN or Github. Neither of these pages has rounded corners for me on 116.0.1938.62 on macOS. What platform are you on? (To be pedantic: The bottom left corner is rounded when not full-screen because it's a window corner, but that's normal and happens with all browsers.)

tlhunter 3y ago

Doesn't macOS round the corners of application windows, including browsers?

masswerk 3y ago
This generally applies to outer window borders, but not to the content area. Interestingly, Edge doesn't apply rounded corners to its own content presentation, either, as can be seen in the screenshots provided in a page (Neowin) linked by another comment, here. To me, it appears much so as if MS is making a serious attempt to differentiate between own and foreign content, which includes a rather surprising comeback of visually prominent frame/window borders, which are marked by round corners in this particular design language. (If this is a good thing or not is left to the beholder, but it's at least interesting.)

wkat4242 3y ago

It also provides this unwanted bullshit like coupon notifications and buy now pay later scams. I know it can be turned off but it should never have been included. Really, I don't know why people still use it. If you want chrome, just use the real thing. The only reason I use it is Microsoft lobbied my work to make it the "official" browser. Not sure why they're so proud of their copy of Google's stuff with a thin layer of Microsoft veneer. I don't find it a strong selling point of a software company when they have to admit someone else does a better job. Personally I just use Firefox and love it.

Unfrozen0688 3y ago
>The only reason I use it is Microsoft lobbied my work to make it the "official" browser The reason is that Edge works with Azure Entra SSO out of the box, syncs settings and everything with a Microsoft account, integrates with smartscreen and defender, works the best with all office 365 apps, Bing now searches Office 365 etc. ALSO the settings control is offers over GPO and Intune. No "lobbying" needed, sadly. (I use a wombo combo of browsers at work and at home...)

FridayoLeary 3y ago

So they finally found that "better experience" that comes with using the Edge browser according to Microsoft. Of course the ungrateful masses reject it.

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

This isn't new

ChrisArchitect 3y ago
https://www.neowin.net/news/get-ready-for-more-rounded-corners-in-windows-11-in-somewhat-unexpected-places/ https://www.neowin.net/news/get-ready-for-more-rounded-corne...

steroids33331 3y ago

i cant fucking take it anymore

Unfrozen0688 3y ago
https://imgur.com/PCSrpsf https://imgur.com/PCSrpsf

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

svilen_dobrev 3y ago

so is Opera (on linux).. some 3-4px artificial frame-of-theirs that does not come or be controllable by window-manager. Why? To look rounded on rounded phones? All these "pink-fluffy-unicorn" looks-feels of all recent techie stuff start to make me sick..

LorenDB 3y ago
I'm happy with the rounded corners in Opera (although I rarely see them since I leave the window maximized most of the time); in face, I would love to see KDE Plasma adopt the same strategy of rounding all four corners of windows. It looks nice, and Windows 11 has reinforced that it can work fine without getting in the user's way (although Windows 11 rounded them too much, and now it's hard to resize windows easily).
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > I would love to see KDE Plasma adopt the same strategy of rounding all four corners of windows. Only if it can be disabled. I would hate this quite a lot.

joker_minmax 3y ago

YouTube has now started rounding corners of the video player at full-screen for some users. My friends have shared screenshots of this but I am yet to encounter it outside of mobile where my phone screen is already rounded. I seriously thought the round corners trend was dead already. Why are they trying to force it back?